If you could only pick between two halftrack machines...

  • Thread starter Thread starter sweetbeats
  • Start date Start date

Which halftrack would you pick?

  • 3M M-64

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Tascam BR-20T

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Total voters
    4
Probably this beauty :)
 

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Personally, I'd go with the Tascam, but not without a lot of hesitation. The TASCAM is liable to require less work, and takes up less space. I'm not sure if the 3M supports varispeed either. That said, if the 3M doesn't have a pinch roller, that's a key point of failure removed...
 
jpmorris said:
Personally, I'd go with the Tascam, but not without a lot of hesitation. The TASCAM is liable to require less work, and takes up less space. I'm not sure if the 3M supports varispeed either. That said, if the 3M doesn't have a pinch roller, that's a key point of failure removed...
Click to expand...

A reel to reel without a pinch roller? Is there such a thing ?:confused:
 
TASCAM MAN said:
A reel to reel without a pinch roller? Is there such a thing ?:confused:
Click to expand...

Yes. Stephens machines work that way, and they were modified 3M decks. No capstan, no pinch roller. I think the Ampex ATRs do as well, and Otari did something similar on the MTR-90 but it might have been some other component - possibly the tension rollers or something.

The trick is that you use servo control on the reel motors and a tach wheel to report on the tape speed. This does have a downside that you can't play tape loops or do things like that, but it simplifies the system and takes out a number of failure modes relating to the capstan.
 
The 3M has a capstan and TWO pinch rollers...

Geez guys...that's what I get for asking a Tascam crowd. This is tough.
 
sweetbeats said:
The 3M has a capstan and TWO pinch rollers...

Geez guys...that's what I get for asking a Tascam crowd. This is tough.
Click to expand...

I voted for the 3M, as its a perfect fit for the "beefcake" theme all of your other studio gear represents. But if it were up to me, I'd keep both, as its really a good thing to be able to make safety copies of important recordings or to make mastered stereo masters, etc.

Cheers! :)
 
Yeah, Jeff, that's where the struggle comes in for me...the 3M is a wonderful fit with the current setup as well as the future likelihood that the MCI JH-416 mixing desk will be joining the Ampex MM-1000. And it's much more than an aesthetic...that is definitely part of it, but there is a draw to the build quality differences. This is not about the Tascam being of poor quality...not at all. It's just that, as is the case with much of what was made for the recording studio industry pre late 70's was designed and engineered with a completely different idiom. I'd argue all day that Teac was primarily responsible for identifying what of that idiom was really necessary for the home/project/personal studio markets they largely helped create...and I applaud the decisions they made because they were so very well balanced between cost point and functionality/features/performance. But you get your hands on the guts of one of these old things and its like "are you kidding me???" And I believe there are performance characteristics that go along with that which get lost as a result of the "advancements" of the market and technology; some things are gained reciprocally, but I am drawn to what "was". I like refined performance characteristics though too, and the BR-20T is a very slick performing machine.

Other thoughts in random order: my Tascam has the timecode track which is neat, but I honestly don't think that functionality fits into my studio and process...and I don't think it will. The Tascam has freshly lapped heads, recapped PSU, upgraded headphone amp, and is overall in A1 shape cosmetically, mechanically and electronically...new pinch roller and lifters too...have a spare belt on the shelf and the proper RC-402 remote (as well as a fully outfitted Timeline MicroLynx for INSANE auto-locate functionality using the timecode track...). I even have the proper tilting/rolling rack for the Tascam. But the Tascam is, comparatively-speaking, garden-variety from an audio perspective. It sounds GREAT, but the 3M has all kinds of mojo with its gihugic I/O transformers, high-headroom, high-voltage discrete power supplies, class A discrete audio amplification, etc. and as far as tape handling the transport is no slouch either...the iso-loop path features constant tension (mechanically facilitated), dynamic braking (that's right...no brakes on the 3M...the reeling motors handle all the braking), and wow and flutter specs that will give ANY transport a run for its money and they did it without having to add scrape flutter idlers or rolling guides. It's pretty amazing. And the 3M doesn't have an IC on it anywhere...all mechanical relays which can have their issues, but its nice for troubleshooting for the less inclined technically. My 3M machine is also 30ips capable. In my opinion the M23/56/64 is absolutely the pinnacle tape transport of its era, and so much so I believe it holds its own against modern machines. There's a reason John Stephens based his tape transport work on the Mincom assembly. I've also modded the 3M by outfitting super-cool Ampex instrumentation "butterfly" reel clampers. You can tell I'm attached to the 3M. It still needs setup work and I'm sure some dickering. It will need some recapping too. It takes up lots more space, but that also means its easier/roomier to work on. And for cryin' out loud guys...you work with VU meters the size of tea saucers just once and you're hooked! The Tascam is a lovely machine, but it would be the practical choice...I'm not sure this is a decision about practicality, and it's hard to justify keeping two machines when I don't use the stuff much at all, and when I'm a middle-class man supporting a family of 6, you know?
 
sweetbeats said:
... it's hard to justify keeping two machines when I don't use the stuff much at all, and when I'm a middle-class man supporting a family of 6, you know?
Click to expand...

Yeah but you bought both machines after you had that family of 6 and selling one or the other isn't going to allow you to make it a family of 7! :laughings:

I sold my entire studio and that barely paid for half a year's rent and groceries. How far is a family of 6 gonna go on the sale of one of those deuces?

Cheers! :)
 
3M, hands down.

That is, unless you wanna keep the Tascam and sell the 3M to me! Only then will I change my vote.
 
sweetbeats said:
Yeah, Jeff, that's where the struggle comes in for me...the 3M is a wonderful fit with the current setup as well as the future likelihood that the MCI JH-416 mixing desk will be joining the Ampex MM-1000. And it's much more than an aesthetic...that is definitely part of it, but there is a draw to the build quality differences. This is not about the Tascam being of poor quality...not at all. It's just that, as is the case with much of what was made for the recording studio industry pre late 70's was designed and engineered with a completely different idiom. I'd argue all day that Teac was primarily responsible for identifying what of that idiom was really necessary for the home/project/personal studio markets they largely helped create...and I applaud the decisions they made because they were so very well balanced between cost point and functionality/features/performance. But you get your hands on the guts of one of these old things and its like "are you kidding me???" And I believe there are performance characteristics that go along with that which get lost as a result of the "advancements" of the market and technology; some things are gained reciprocally, but I am drawn to what "was". I like refined performance characteristics though too, and the BR-20T is a very slick performing machine.

Other thoughts in random order: my Tascam has the timecode track which is neat, but I honestly don't think that functionality fits into my studio and process...and I don't think it will. The Tascam has freshly lapped heads, recapped PSU, upgraded headphone amp, and is overall in A1 shape cosmetically, mechanically and electronically...new pinch roller and lifters too...have a spare belt on the shelf and the proper RC-402 remote (as well as a fully outfitted Timeline MicroLynx for INSANE auto-locate functionality using the timecode track...). I even have the proper tilting/rolling rack for the Tascam. But the Tascam is, comparatively-speaking, garden-variety from an audio perspective. It sounds GREAT, but the 3M has all kinds of mojo with its gihugic I/O transformers, high-headroom, high-voltage discrete power supplies, class A discrete audio amplification, etc. and as far as tape handling the transport is no slouch either...the iso-loop path features constant tension (mechanically facilitated), dynamic braking (that's right...no brakes on the 3M...the reeling motors handle all the braking), and wow and flutter specs that will give ANY transport a run for its money and they did it without having to add scrape flutter idlers or rolling guides. It's pretty amazing. And the 3M doesn't have an IC on it anywhere...all mechanical relays which can have their issues, but its nice for troubleshooting for the less inclined technically. My 3M machine is also 30ips capable. In my opinion the M23/56/64 is absolutely the pinnacle tape transport of its era, and so much so I believe it holds its own against modern machines. There's a reason John Stephens based his tape transport work on the Mincom assembly. I've also modded the 3M by outfitting super-cool Ampex instrumentation "butterfly" reel clampers. You can tell I'm attached to the 3M. It still needs setup work and I'm sure some dickering. It will need some recapping too. It takes up lots more space, but that also means its easier/roomier to work on. And for cryin' out loud guys...you work with VU meters the size of tea saucers just once and you're hooked! The Tascam is a lovely machine, but it would be the practical choice...I'm not sure this is a decision about practicality, and it's hard to justify keeping two machines when I don't use the stuff much at all, and when I'm a middle-class man supporting a family of 6, you know?
Click to expand...


Id say that the question is asked, and answered.
 
Dang...well that was a dumb thing to do...continuing the cleanup and going through and organizing empty reels and blank tape on the shelves...had to spool some SM911 off of a 10.5" trident hub plastic reel onto a 10.5" NAB hub metal reel. Looked at the BR-20T sittin' there on the floor...mounted the reels, put it into spool mode...watched the entire reel spool off...stupid machine is so quiet and precise...tape pack looks like glass...DANGIT!

Hm...I've never actually run tape on the M-64...kind of scared to...have a feeling it's going to eat the tape or something...but it IS hard not to wonder what it looks and sounds like when it's actually transporting tape...
 
Hm...welllll...that was nothing short of ugly. Guess I'll need to update my 3M M-64 Story thread. There's a whole heap of issues going on. Transport barely rewinds tape, the optical tape load sensor is too sensitive or maybe the new lamp is too bright because it can never tell tape is loaded so I has to block the sensor with something...which was exciting when the crawling rewind debacle finally came to a close since the reels spin at a buhjllion miles per hour if there's nothing to hold them back (or nothing to stop them when tape spools off...like a...tape sensor), guides are maladjusted and the tape keeps dropping down off the pinch rollers...thank goodness for shop tape! The most troubling is when PLAY is engaged there is a tape loop that develops on the takeup side. This may be related to the slow rewind problem as far as tension settings...or something isn't happening in the transport logic to delay pinch roller engagement, but the takeup motor isn't keeping up. I can tell you the tension resistors are getting power though...peeeeeeyewwww.

*sigh*

I'll have to see if I can get the answers I need for setup and adjustment of this thing out of the M-56 manual I have...if not it'll be time to cough up for a copy of the M-64 manual. Unless all you vintage 3M owners here want to help me out hahahah! Okay...score another one for the Tascam. I think ofajen is the only other one around here really familiar with this transport and I think, like me, he's a bit scarce these days.
 
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