Ideas for Mixing Harmonies

[jaynm26]

Coming from the king of in-coherent melt downs, I'll take that as a compliment.

Nice attempt at back-tracking. What a joke.

Ahh, for his own amusement people for his own amusement.

 

[Lt. Bob]

RAMI, I understand perfectly well what he is saying...He is explaining the use of eq with background vocals, then he goes in more detail explaining his use of Eq on the "Lead Vocal"...are you following RAMI??? I respond with "I know the use of eq. Meaning I understand the use of eq on background vocals & also lead vocal I understand the uses of Eq in both context that mj stated. You should really read post before you go badgering them RAMI, this is all RAMI's War right here people beware.



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dude .... you asked a question ..... people answered. SOME will be answers you can use and some will be things you already know.
It will always be that way for every single question you ever ask and there's no reason to be a douche when someone simply tries to help.
Is it a burden on you to skip over things you already knew? No.
Is there some way that the responder can read your mind? No?
Then use what is helpful to you and don't use what's not.
Then thank anyone that took the time to try and help without being a prick to them.

otherwise pretty soon no one will answer any of your basic beginner questions at all IF you don't find yourself banned.

 

[mjbphotos]

Oh what the heck I'll guess I'll give me own.

I Eq each harmony tracks separately to give each its own sound (digital EQ for cuts, Analog for Boost & color). I rout to a BGV/Harm Aux with Analog EQ mainly just boosting a little highs, cutting lows, very subtle as not to change the individual character of the harmonies.
The BGV/Harm Aux has a Choir FX send (Antares Choir, should really check this plugin out) very small amount followed by the UAD Neve EQ hp lows, cut a little mid depends on vocal, cut or boost highs depends on sound, mainly use for color and saturation. Next I put a small plate reverb on the insert very short plate, short time, very subtle. Send the BGV/Harm Aux to a Hall Reverb, Long and bright.
I also experimenting with the Aphex Exciter set up as a Aux send, sending from the BGV/Harm Bus I cant describe it simply BEAUTIFUL!

I hardly ever setup delays for Harmonies if I do its very short delay mainly for fulness and space. I hardly ever comp harmonies. Sometimes I switch out the Choir effect and exchange it with an Ensemble or Enigma depends on genre type and singer.

So you EQ each BGV twice to start out - digtal cuts + analog 'boost'; then from an aux send you EQ again, then after another FX, you EQ again?

 

[jaynm26]

dude .... you asked a question ..... people answered. SOME will be answers you can use and some will be things you already know.
It will always be that way for every single question you ever ask and there's no reason to be a douche when someone simply tries to help.
Is it a burden on you to skip over things you already knew? No.
Is there some way that the responder can read your mind? No?
Then use what is helpful to you and don't use what's not.
Then thank anyone that took the time to try and help without being a prick to them.

otherwise pretty soon no one will answer any of your basic beginner questions at all IF you don't find yourself banned.

Lt, Bob, my response of "I know the use of eq?" was me being a prick? Then you took my statement wrong. Dont read my post in personality and tone because 1,000% of the time you will be wrong.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Lt, Bob, my response of "I know the use of eq?" was me being a prick? Then you took my statement wrong. Dont read my post in personality and tone because 1,000% of the time you will be wrong.

then maybe you should post like the nice guy you claim to be.

The way you post will always be how people read your personality because that's all they have to judge by.

And I can only be wrong 100% of the time ...... 1000% is meaningless.

 

[jaynm26]

So you EQ each BGV twice to start out - digtal cuts + analog 'boost'; then from an aux send you EQ again, then after another FX, you EQ again?

Mj I look at My two first EQ's as 1 because you cant fine tune cuts on a analog EQ but you can on a digital because you have Q's that get very fine, Pro Tools EQ's and Waves Ren EQ's. So yes I do all my cuts with digital EQ's first. I never boost with them. I follow my 2nd or 2nd part of equing with analog EQ I boost with Analog EQ's no cuts also the analog molded EQ's have their own distinct color and harmonics I like that.
My next EQ on the BGV Aux Yes, because when I bus all the harmonies to an aux the sound "CHANGES" sometimes I get a build up of mid (as for instance on a male vocal) or I get to many highs (on a female vocal). Overall the sound changes when all are grouped so I keep EQ at the ready to accommodate that. And yes sometimes I EQ after an effect because the effect changes the sound of the vocal and if it changes it in a negative way I use EQ to correct it. I admit I use EQ alot, Groups, buses, and after effects anywhere where the sound can change, is there a rule against it?

 

[Steenamaroo]

when I bus all the harmonies to an aux the sound "CHANGES" sometimes I get a build up of mid (as for instance on a male vocal) or I get to many highs (on a female vocal).

Overall the sound changes when all are grouped so I keep EQ at the ready to accommodate that.

Is this true?

 

[jaynm26]

then maybe you should post like the nice guy you claim to be.

The way you post will always be how people read your personality because that's all they have to judge by.

And I can only be wrong 100% of the time ...... 1000% is meaningless.

Point is I did not respond in a disrespectful way at all, not in anyway. RAMI made it seem that way which started this whole act.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Point is I did not respond in a disrespectful way at all, not in anyway.

I'll try one more time but I don't want you to think I'm attacking you .... I'm not. I don't care very much.

BUT .... it is possible to be disrespectful without realizing it.

One of the absolute pet peeves among the long time regulars here is when people ask questions .... get responses and then say they already knew all that.
It comes across as, "hey dummy ...... that's not what I asked .... your attempt to help is useless to me", even if that's not how you meant it to sound.
There's just no need to tell someone you basically wished they hadn't wasted their time trying to be helpful.

PLUS threads are for everybody .... not just the OP ..... so that EQ answer might be very helpful to some other newbie that's reading your thread to find out about mixing harmonies.

It's much better to just say thank you.

Now ...... you do as you wish ...... it's a free society ..... I'm just telling you as a 13 year member here how this particular society works and how people tend to respond to certain things whether you think it's silly or not.

Trying to help man ...... do with it what you wish.

 

[jaynm26]

I'll try one more time but I don't want you to think I'm attacking you .... I'm not. I don't care very much.

BUT .... it is possible to be disrespectful without realizing it.

One of the absolute pet peeves among the long time regulars here is when people ask questions .... get responses and then say they already knew all that.
It comes across as, "hey dummy ...... that's not what I asked .... your attempt to help is useless to me", even if that's not how you meant it to sound.
There's just no need to tell someone you basically wished they hadn't wasted their time trying to be helpful.

It's much better to just say thank you.

Now ...... you do as you wish ...... it's a free society ..... I'm just telling you as a 13 year member here how this particular society works and how people tend to respond to certain things whether you think it's silly or not.

Trying to help man ...... do with it what you wish.

Bob "Understand" was a very careful word. I didnt say anything that came close to "I know that already or HEY DUMMY I KNOW THAT! No, All i said was I simply understand the use of EQ. If RAMI would have never made the following statement which made everyone "THINK" I was being a prick you wouldnt have to explain how not to sound like one"..The Power of RAMI, Army of One Man...Hope your happy RAMI! just keep ruining my post and making me out to be the bad guy again...here we go. Like I said mj if my statement offended you or put you down in anyway tell me I will apologize.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Bob "Understand" was a very careful word. I didnt say anything that came close to "I know that already or HEY DUMMY I KNOW THAT! No, All i said was I simply understand the use of EQ. If RAMI would have never made the following statement which made everyone "THINK" I was being a prick you wouldnt have to explain how not to sound like one"..The Power of RAMI, Army of One Man...Hope your happy RAMI! just keep ruining my post and making me out to be the bad guy again...here we go. Like I said mj if my statement offended you or put you down in anyway tell me I will apologize.

lol ....... ok ....... you're right of course and anyone that disagrees is wrong no matter how carefully they choose their words. Gotcha!

I look forward to hearing some of your music and harmonies.
Have fun recording and make good music.

 

[jaynm26]

If I said, hey mj I understand the conventional way to use EQ on BGV but I am looking for more "creative" ways for mixing harmonies you all would have strung me up RAMI first.....I get it its because Im black, I get it. Hey I didnt vote for obama I voted for Ron Paul

 

[Steenamaroo]

If you really want help with mixing your harmonies, drop the faceless arguments and take a look at how you're using auxes.

If your previous descriptions were about the digital domain, I don't think they're right.
A group of tracks send to a bus will null with the direct output when the bus polarity is inverted, in Protools at least.

Shouldn't be any need for compensating eq on a bus.

 

[jaynm26]

lol ....... ok ....... you're right of course and anyone that disagrees is wrong no matter how carefully they choose their words. Gotcha! .

Never said that bob

 

[Lt. Bob]

I get it its because Im black, I get it.

LOL @ that! Is that a serious comment?!?!!

First off ...... how would I know you're black?
I actually still don't since I've never seen you.

Secondly how do you know I'm not black?
I'm from Louisiana where the population is around 50-50.
And my very best friend is black.
I was just telling you how it came across to me ..... as I said, you're free to think what you want and obviously you're going to assume that any attempt to help is just an attempt to put you down.
Go on with your bad self.

As I said, make music ..... I look forward to hearing it.

 

[jaynm26]

If you really want help with mixing your harmonies, drop the faceless arguments and take a look at how you're using auxes.

If your previous descriptions were about the digital domain, I don't think they're right.
A group of tracks send to a bus will null with the direct output when the bus polarity is inverted, in Protools at least.

Shouldn't be any need for compensating eq on a bus.

Steen, I EQ the Bus in the digital domain and as well in analog domain on my desk. Im sure Im not the only one.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yes, that's fine, but it's not my point.

You're saying that when you bus your tracks tracks together they sound different as a group (presumably than they did as separate tracks).

If it's hardware bussing, or you have hardware effects between raw tracks and bus then fair enough, but the act of bussing your tracks together in PT wont change how they sound.

 

[jaynm26]

LOL @ that! Is that a serious comment?!?!!

First off ...... how would I know you're black?
I actually still don't since I've never seen you.

Secondly how do you know I'm not black?
I'm from Lousisiana where the population is around 50-50.
And my very best friend is black.
I was just telling you how it came across to me ..... as I said, you're free to think what you want and obviously you're going to assume that any attempt to help is just an attempt to put you down.
Go on with your bad self.

As I said, make music ..... I look forward to hearing it.

Heck no that statement wasnt for real lol, I put the smily face lol. I know how it came across to you bob thats why i said that wasnt my intentions (If RAMI would have never made that first statement would you even have took it that way? TRULEY? thats what I was saying) My statement was takin out of context from the start. I dont put statements down I just dont.

 

[jaynm26]

Yes, that's fine, but it's not my point.

You're saying that when you bus your tracks tracks together they sound different as a group (presumably than they did as separate tracks).

If it's hardware bussing, or you have hardware effects between raw tracks and bus then fair enough, but the act of bussing your tracks together in PT wont change how they sound.

In hardware it's completely understood. I have been on analog for years my habits extend to digital so excuse my ignorance. Steen Im gonna go try it before I respond but what if I have full session drums, bass, guitars, piano, pads, all vocals, and bus all those sounds to one track master mix bus to main output the sound dose not sound different? Im asking an honest question, not trying to be a smart ass or rude or a prick or any other adverb or adjective that describes negative behavior. Just an honest question.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Just an honest question.

That's cool, man. I'm prepared to be wrong because obviously I don't know your routing and setup,
but keeping it simple.....

If you have a full mix, drums bass guitars vocals, etc,

Regardless of what effects you have going on, send everything to an auxiliary whilst maintaining the main outputs.
Now invert polarity of the aux track. It will null with the main outs.

If your sends are prefader (they aren't by default) then it won't null perfectly because of volume differences, but all your individual track effects are still sent to the bus.
My point is that the tonal characteristics of your audio wont change. They shouldn't come muddy, or thin or anything.

You may choose to eq that aux track (and I often do), but you shouldn't need to as a result of bussing tracks.

The complicated version.
If you're using hardware outputs for individual tracks and processing/summing them externally, then returning it to an aux in PT, there's every chance that the returning audio will sound different to the original tracks; That's the point of doing that, I guess.

I've never worked 100% in the analog domain, but I imagine bussing tracks on an analog console could would alter the overall sound because it's real analog processing.
With digital it's just numbers. There's no degradation in doing that.

I just brought it up because it sounds like you're talking about straight sends to aux in PT.