Ideas For Mix Position Layout

Dr. Varney

Dr. Varney

Pimp
On going...

New-Equipment-Stack-2.jpg


Better to work it out in Photoshop than make a gaff with the wood.

Is that a good position for the speaker monitors or not? I've seen a lot of people have them in this position in home studios but I would never have considered it for domestic hi-fi.

Would rather have the mixer flat than upright but desk space is limited and the control surfaces need to be close at hand.

Dr. V
 
I'd say if the monitor are designed to use on their side, then yes. If not, then they will affect you stereo field pretty badly.
I tested on this on my new monitors few months ago: when I put the monitors on their side all songs fell apart.
 
Miro, that would be just about at ear level in the seated position. If anything, higher, but only by an inch.

Seidy, thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll have to test this before committing. I never thought any monitor would be designed to lie on it's side but I see so many examples of it in studio photographs. I have wondered if it's to shoehorn them in with the rest of the gear and to stop treble roll off at that height.

Do you know how the design would actually differ between side & upright cabinets? Could the cones themselves have an orientation?

They are actually JPW ML-310s, an award winning budget hi-fi speaker. Passive, bi-wirable. They were never sold as studio monitors, but the best I've managed to lay my hands on so far.

At present, sitting on a window sill, with hardly any room behind them. Not the best the position for any speaker and I'm not exactly central to their field, either.

Dr. V
 
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If the monitors are a little too high, consider some of those isopads that point the monitor downwards a little bit. And I think more important than what you've shown us here, is where is this going to be in the room?
 
jlewis said:
If the monitors are a little too high, consider some of those isopads that point the monitor downwards a little bit. And I think more important than what you've shown us here, is where is this going to be in the room?
Click to expand...

Dunno if you're in England or not, but you know what a terraced house looks like inside? Before the knock-thru, you have two rooms on the ground. I'm at the back, right up against the back wall; in front of a window and next to a door.

The long desk extends into the alcove next to the fireplace, where my KB controller is situated, just to my left.

Until I can either build a purpose shed in the back yard or move house altogether, this is how it is. The room has to double up as my art studio and that's how I make my living, so the music is second to this.

I've already built the desktop and done the cut outs for the peripherals. What I haven't built yet is the vertical rise which houses mixer, display screens and amps... and on top of which, it seems only logical to place those monitors.

Dr. V
 
If your going to build a purpose shed out back wouldn't you first want to consider how you would make it burglar proof?







:cool:
 
moresound said:
If your going to build a purpose shed out back wouldn't you first want to consider how you would make it burglar proof?







:cool:
Click to expand...

Of course... but it's not high on the to-do list atm. I do already have a purpose built shed as a workshop. Now I built that pretty damn secure but there is no access to the back, other than via a neighbour's garden and there is definitely no easy exit. The whole premises is not an easy target (touch wood).

Dr. V
 
Set the speakers so that the drivers align vertically.

The acoustic 'center' of the speaker should be about 135 to 145cm above the floor, depending upon the distance to the operator. The speakers should also be aligned so that their front panels point directly to the listener.

They should also be positioned not to cause reflections off the work surface.

Cheers,
John
 
Thanks. Yeah, so in the end, I think this is gonna work well. I thnk the speakers will be at the right height. The question is, how normally would having tweeters at the side as opposed to above the woofer affect the sound? I'm guessing there won't be any reflections off the work surface, as the desktop slopes down and away from the sound's direction.

I have reservations about putting the power amp inside the cabinet. I suppose I could allow space above it and introduce a grill into the facia for cooling.

So far, this design seems to have significantly reduced computer fan noise. I did a mic test the other day and you can't hear it at all.

Dr. V
 
Dr. Varney said:
Thanks. Yeah, so in the end, I think this is gonna work well. I thnk the speakers will be at the right height. The question is, how normally would having tweeters at the side as opposed to above the woofer affect the sound? I'm guessing there won't be any reflections off the work surface, as the desktop slopes down and away from the sound's direction.
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Again, do not lay these speakers sideways. If you do, there will be a large 'stage smear' every time you move your head. Those speakers were not designed to lay sideways.

Dr. Varney said:
I have reservations about putting the power amp inside the cabinet. I suppose I could allow space above it and introduce a grill into the facia for cooling.
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Dr. V, Do not allow any heat producing equipment below the speakers as the heat currents will cause diffraction and distortion. Move the amp to the bottom of the desk or even on the floor. (This is the same reason that you see many old tube mics being used upside-down. -- So that the heat currents from the hot tube does not pass over or in front of the microphone's diaphragm and cause acoustic distortion).

Cheers,
John
 
Just looked more closely at some pictures again. Those 'side lying' monitors do appear quite different to how upright speakers would look on their sides.

Anyway, here's the finished result. Funny, it didn't turn out anything like my original design. Do you like what I've done with those old cardboard boxes?

CRW_3649.jpg


Dr. V
 
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Dr. Varney said:
....It's easy to assume monitors can lie on their sides, when you see so many of them like that in studio photos...
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You are absolutely correct.

This is another reason that I always say, "Don't copy stuff!"

Many studios do things wrong. Many photos are misleading. Many people copy MTV videos 'sets'. All of this looks good. But has no use acoustically.

Always check what you hear about, read about on the internet, and see in other studios with a reputable source with explanations and data. I must add a 'recommended reading' list to my pubs page. - until then, I recommend research into:
Master Handbook of Acoustics - F. Alton Everest
Recording Studio Design - Philip Newell
Recording Spaces - Philip Newell
-- and if you really want to get technical ---
Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers - Trevor J. Cox & Peter D’Antonio
Architectural Acoustics - Marshall Long
Springer Handbook of Acoustics - Rossing (editor)

This is just a start. ;)

Cheers,
John
 
Thanks, I'll look into that. You're right, I was really taking my cues visually. I'll keep them upright and think again about the layout. It's not that vital to change things around yet, everthing works fine - it's just a cosmetic thing, as the music stuff is in a shared use room. Thanks for the info!

Cheers
 
jhbrandt said:
Set the speakers so that the drivers align vertically.

The acoustic 'center' of the speaker should be about 135 to 145cm above the floor, depending upon the distance to the operator. The speakers should also be aligned so that their front panels point directly to the listener.

They should also be positioned not to cause reflections off the work surface.

Cheers,
John
Click to expand...


This always baffles me John. How can you have a work station and in my case a big Analog Yamaha PM1000a console right in front of me and not get reflections?







:cool:
 
jhbrandt said:
Dr. V, Do not allow any heat producing equipment below the speakers as the heat currents will cause diffraction and distortion. Move the amp to the bottom of the desk or even on the floor. (This is the same reason that you see many old tube mics being used upside-down. -- So that the heat currents from the hot tube does not pass over or in front of the microphone's diaphragm and cause acoustic distortion).

Cheers,
John
Click to expand...

I think tubes create much more heat than a domestic solid state integrated amp. NADs do run a little warmer than most but I really don't think it's going to cause as much trouble as all that. As long as it's vented before reaching the speaker, it shouldn't be a problem.

I can only go so far with such a rudimentary set up in the corner of a dining room. As far as reflections go, well... I don't have plans to treat the room yet. Maybe next year I'll look into it. I've been getting more than passable mixes with this set up so far. Right now, I can't put too much store on all that acoustic science - as long as I can hear what's going on, it's good enough for now.

Dr. V
 
moresound said:
This always baffles me John. How can you have a work station and in my case a big Analog Yamaha PM1000a console right in front of me and not get reflections?
Click to expand...

There is a way. - At least to minimize the reflections.

This is done by ray-tracing on the vertical plane. The desk is angled to 'bounce' rays below the ears of the operator & the speakers are at a distance so the glancing angle is low. Ideally the speakers should not be on the meter bridge, but behind it. The rear of the console usually has an absorption panel to eliminate reflections. Absorption material or a cushion is often laid on top of the meter bridge to eliminate reflections there. Diffraction is inevitable from the edges but is often much less of a problem than the comb filtering. :cool:

Cheers,
John
 
Ah, bollocks. I've scrapped this idea now and ripped out the desk. I'm going for a more flexible approach.

Thanks for the advice though... I'm right near a window and a radiator... oh and a bloody great corner. Somehow, I really don't think following any of the good advice I've found here is gonna do me much good until I can move house or get myself a garage! This place is technically what one might call a 'friggin waste of Rockwool'. :(

(Grabs headphones).

Dr. V
 
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