I wish I could afford apogee or lucid. I really do. Now then...

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photoresistor

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Alright, here's the deal:

I'm thinking of upgrading from my Aardvark 24/96. Its been great, really... it would be nice to have some more inputs, however.

Also, I was interested in using the Soundcraft M12 mixer. This would give me plenty of channels (12 mono, 4 stereo), preamps that have been described as at least 'comparable' to the aardvarks (not to mention that 'british eq' wee), and would work both in 'the studio' (thats a laugh) and for live gigs.

Now here's the problem: Getting the mixer is all fine and dandy but I would need convertors (i usually think of these 'minor details' after i take the plunge haha).

There is no way I would be ABLE to buy lucid or apogee convertors (let alone JUSTIFY spending that much money)... the problem is that I'd need at least 8 channels of conversion bliss which runs up the bill quite nicely.

So heres the question (i know youve been waiting for it):

Do convertors exist between the Lucid quality and the Behringer quality that aren't in all in one soundcard units? I really havent heard much about them on this board at least. In my searches I've heard: Behringer! Lucid! Apogee!

Honestly, I probably wouldn't mind all that much even just using a q10 for its convertors because I haven't been dissatisfied. It would be nice to take a step up in the convertor world though (even a baby step) and buying a q10 just doesnt make sense! Why would I pay for the preamps and all those things I dont need when I just need convertors? Basically, are there convertors for about the price of a q10 that would be worth getting?

What are the convertors that are below, say... lucid? any recommendations? (i was thinking lynx for awhile but they dont have enough io)

thankyou for listening.

...at the end of the day i might just go the q10 route lol... but it really would be nice to have a mixer.
 
well i dont know if these will make you happy.
but a lot of hi end users like convertors in the RME sound range.
the benefit of rme is solid drivers.
i'm probably going rme or lynx this year myself.
this is all your personal preference.
my perspective on the whole issue is to get down to earth.
and i can see spending a lot of money on hi end stuff like mytek etc
if you are a big successfull act with lots of cash or a huge major studio.
but even delta sound cards i believe are sufficient for most.
very good songs are being done on delta sound cards.
good pre's and mics are where i would concentrate my efforts.
 
Even as an alleged RME dealer, I can tell you, theyre tech guys can be INFURIATING, with the exception of distributor synthax.de here in the states. Specifically George who will bend over backwards to get you going. Daniel will try very hard too.

That said, the RME ADI DS gives you so friggin many options, and if you can find one the RME ADI AE (with a TINY bit of extra noise) are bargains and ULTRA bargains respectively

If you are using Cubendo or Samplitude, throw in an RME HDSP 9652 and you will be an unbelieveably happy camper. Under those two systems, RME's ASIO 2.0 compliance almost allows monitoring and mixing as if a novice recordist used to working in the real world at least cleaning toilets would make it.

Sounds like thats a bad thing, but it is LIGHT years closer to professional than anyone else, and it is getting better

If you are using another host app (like I use Vegas) you might still want the HDSP since you have total mix to deal with the lack of any understanding of conventional recording practices, that SF's coders can SEEM to have in the monitoring/routing department.

Total mix can save your ass

anyway, the RME converters do ADAT and TDIF, and on the analog side carry both 1/4" TRS and Tascam DB-25 specs

The ADI DS can do bit splitting and some other tricks as well, not to mention format conversion from your old DA-88 tapes to ADAT or vice versa

The other piece to look out for is a used RADAR. You will get awesome converters and a capable field recorder in one unit
 
Thanks for the replies...

The RME convertors are still pretty spendy. Again, I'm thinking about convertors that would run around the price of a Q10 ($600-700).

Is there anything worth looking at in that category?
 
Well, if you can get over the all in one soundcard issue, for a few more dollars a LynxII would be a very large step up in sound. In fact, I think they are substantially better than the RME soundwise. You could SPDIF off the Soundcraft to two channels of digital tracks and, in the case of the LynxII version B you could have 6 more analog inputs. This would give you 2 digital and 6 analog for a total of 8 channels.
 
Yeah, I looked at the Lynx Two cards a little bit. Ever since I've been at this message board, I've heard testimonials of their quality.

I just wish they had a more straightforward setup with no preamps and like inputs. Ah well, can't get everything.

That idea about using the s/pdif to have a total of 8 inputs is interesting... I hadn't thought of that before. The only downside might be that I believe the soundcraft's s/pdif is only capable of 16/44.

And still thats a little more than I'd like to spend... maybe alone I could see myself buying the Lynx Two but definately not the Lynx AND the soundcraft.

Man I'm a picky man, aren't i? ;)

thanks for all of your suggestions... it really is helping me. even if i cant find something to work out ill just realize i should go with another standalone card and forget the mixer.
 
Sorry, I thought you had the Soundcraft already.

Yeah you're going to need some preamps. The RME is probably the best route.
 
thats my only beef with the lynx stuff...I just need I/O's and its tricky to make a big setup oiut of Lynx stuff

but for at home? Hell yeah
 
do you need preamps/DI or not?

Cuz if you need I/O's the lynxcards can do that.
 
hmmm, I'm in the same boat as you and i am still pending between firepod and the more elaborate RME with some outboard hooked up. At the moment the combination of the 9652 with aTascam DM24 seems great (bit out of my, your, our? league) but gives great results , flexibility with the optional firewire card AND RME driver stabillity... can always use more outboard gear... what am i trying to say? i don't know but it's a tough debat... One day i'm in the screw it the song is all that matters get the firepod mood, the next i'm flexibilty and non-frustrating reliability would be better mood. :mad:

Sorry for the rambling , let's just say i sympathise LOL! :eek:
 
Teacher, the only Lynx Setup that seemed right for me after talking to tech support, was the Lynx 2 with the two extra LS channels, but even then it cost more than a 48 channel RME card setup, of course with the lynx, 2 and 6 channels of AD DA was taken care of, but thats kind of hard to divide.

We talked about multiple card setups with some users and they werent too keen on it, but who knows

I also couldnt get firm answers on their ASIO 2.0 DM spec compatibility. And thought their mixer is great and would possibly cover me until my perferred app got ASIO DM, RME's totalmix with its really nice and fully supported DM and MME on chip mixing, plus the matrix views, and the routing possibilities kind of cinched it for me

I needed 24 channels of 24/96 and at least a stereo SPDIF/AES. I went with 2 RME DIGI 9652's at first, then RME HDSP 9652's with 3 RME ADI DS's. This soundcard setup will do 48 channels ADAT I/O at 48k as well. I have a Benchmark DAC-1 on one HDSP 9652 Spdif out and a Masterlink on the other HDSP 9652's SPDIF I/O. Since I normally work at 48k, one of theADAT I/O's on the "extra" HDSP goes to an ADAT to AES converter, and feeds an Eventide DSP 4000B, a TC M5000, and leaves me four " guest" spdif/AES I/O's. ADAT compatiable sound modules are free to use the other 16 ADAT I/O's as well

sounds cooler than it looks though. recabling can be a pain for doing 96k, like when I make convolution impulses
 
I'm not sure exactly what your budget is, but you might want to take a look at Soundscape's line. They have recently introduced a number of new products which cover a range of price points.

I've been using their Mixtreme cards for several years and they're a joy. It's the one part of my setup I never even have to think about.

Worth a look anyway:

www.sydec.be

Ted
 
The mixtreme is without a doubt the best supported sound card in the universe. On my home PC I have two mixtremes which I bought when they first came out. They were light years ahead of everyone else in so many features, until they signed on with mackie, but its good to hear they are making a comeback

The staff at soundscape is UNBELIEVEABLE, in the early days when new drivers were coming out quickly to adress the rapidly changing PC audio market, their tech support would call me and other companies to see if we were getting on OK

This is the kind of company where you actually consider the staff your friends. Truly outstanding.

Tedluk is the oncard DSP for non soundscape stuff working? I heard they were going to try VST?

They could have been the ultimate 16 channel I/o plus DSP on a card long before UAD or TC...its a bummer they didnt stay up on that very early on

Have they got their multicard ASIO working yet?

One thing I forgot. The mixtreme's mixer can be controlled by a midi hardware controller

AWESOME!!!!
 
Pipelineaudio- Yes, the newest version of their mixer software now supports VST and VSTi plugs!

Everyone had high hopes when Mackie bought into the company and instead of moving Soundscape forward, they nearly destroyed the company. Sydec (the original developers of the hardware) repurchased the company and have been working hard to get a new product line out the door. If you go to their site, you'll see that they have a number of new products including the new Mixtreme 192 which supports, you guessed it!, 192K recording. In addition, they've radically updated their I-box line with a number of new items.

I'm really hoping that somehow they find distribution again because, as you so eloquently pointed out, they offer a level of support and integrity seldom encountered from any company. Their products are worthy contenders and I hope they find their way into some recognition in the market place. These guys put the engineering first and are fanatical about it. Honestly, I can't think of many pieces of computer hardware that are still viable 5 years later.

In answer to your other question. No, there is no multi-card ASIO support, but my understanding has always been that this is an issue with the ASIO-2 spec and has nothing to do with Soundscape.

From the Mixtreme manual:

Installing multiple Soundscape audio cards

Any number of Soundscape audio cards can be installed in the same PC. However, please note that the current ASIO-2 specification as defined by Steinberg only allows Cubase or Nuendo to use one Soundscape audio card at a time. Cubase or Nuendo can access multiple Soundscape audio cards if it is set to use the MME drivers rather than the ASIO drivers. However, this also results in a higher latency value.

I don't know how other products get around this limitation of ASIO.

Ted
 
Its interesting... I could get 16 inputs from the Mixtreme Power Pak 16, but itd be at a max of 48khz... still its only $500. But if I wanted 96khz the next step up is $2500.
 
That's not entirely correct. You can get up to 192K from the Mixtreme, but with only 4 streams. Each doubling halves the number of channels. 48K=16 channels, 96K= 8 channels, 192K= 4 channels.

The more affordable method, if your computer has the space, would be to add more Mixtremes. You can have as many as your computer can handle.

My only gripe is that Sydec has stuck with TDIF. Apparently, from a technical standpoint, TDIF is superior to ADAT, but it limits connectivity to some degree. The newer I-box interfaces are going towards MADI which, I guess, is going to probably become the new standard.

Oh, one other thing I probably should make clear. In my previous post I said that the newest version of the Mixtreme mixer software supports VST and VSTi plug-ins, that is true, but they cannot utilize the onboard DSP of the cards. They will still run natively on the host computer's CPU. There are a number of included plug-ins that run on the Mixtreme's DSP and others that can be purchased.

Ted
 
48k done right trumps 96k done half assed

and according to theory, correct implementation of 44.1k cant be beat by going higher.....not that I necessarily believe that
 
what i meant by saying that was that their power pak 16 would give me 16 inputs but only at 48khz. the pak includes the card and the two breakout boxes (the 8 input ones). the breakout boxes have a max of 48khz, not the actual card.
 
check out the sample mixes at www.studiozpro.com

About 1/2 of those were done on a pair of mixtremes, running old crappy DA-38's as converters into the mixtreme's TDIF stream

The power pak converters are at least as good as those were

I lose money and/or pull if you dont buy RME, but the guys at Soundscape deserve EVERY consideration they can get. Tech support is THAT good, it is an enigma in this market dominated by midimans and echoes

About the TDIF problem, the tascam TDIF to ADAT converters go for dirt cheap at video houses now
 
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