i think my track is finished ?
- Thread starter P.S.L
- Start date
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
If you think it's finished, then what's the problem ?
You clearly don't think it's finished or you wouldn't want to add to it.
No you don't.
It is your song. Write and record the song that you want to write and record.
It's only my opinion, and lots of people feel differently to me, but I have a fundamental problem with the notion that people that I don't know {or even people that I do know} could tell me how to write my own song. Now, if it sounds horrible, advice on how to possibly fix what's horrible should be welcome. And if I'm putting it out there that I'd like opinions on what may need changing, then I clearly haven't finished it. There are some major questions that I need to be asking myself.
If Paul McCartney {or any songwriter held in high esteem} heard one of my songs and offered advice on how to fix it or improve it, I'd tell him how he could have improved "Yesterday" or "Get Back" or "Michelle." Once I have decided that a song is done, no one on earth can tell me how it could or should be.
After all, I wrote the bleedin' song.
i just think its very poorly mixed compared to like a professional studioIf you think it's finished, then what's the problem ?
You clearly don't think it's finished or you wouldn't want to add to it.
No you don't.
It is your song. Write and record the song that you want to write and record.
It's only my opinion, and lots of people feel differently to me, but I have a fundamental problem with the notion that people that I don't know {or even people that I do know} could tell me how to write my own song. Now, if it sounds horrible, advice on how to possibly fix what's horrible should be welcome. And if I'm putting it out there that I'd like opinions on what may need changing, then I clearly haven't finished it. There are some major questions that I need to be asking myself.
If Paul McCartney {or any songwriter held in high esteem} heard one of my songs and offered advice on how to fix it or improve it, I'd tell him how he could have improved "Yesterday" or "Get Back" or "Michelle." Once I have decided that a song is done, no one on earth can tell me how it could or should be.
After all, I wrote the bleedin' song.
i just really like getting feedback from people as im used too people say my stuff could improve rob aylestone
Moderator
OK - The electric piano at the start is all one level, very firmly quantised and sounds artificial. Then the same tone comes in playing eighth notes in the same repetitive way, like a 50 pound kids keyboard. then a new keyboard sound comes in with a very 'cheap' sound. I kept waiting for the song to start then realised the intro WAS the song. So far and I'm over a minute in - nothing has happened bar a boring bass suddenly appearing - and again with a really cheesy sound. Then it suddenly stopped - no end cadence? A sort of musical full stop is normal? The reverse sweepy sounds could have been a great intro to a kick ass section that never came.
It's musically boring. It doesn;t go anywhere. There are no clear verses or choruses, it just plods on, and ends.
Secondly, the pallete of sounds is really entry level, cheap and cheerful. No depth to anything, everything like a cheap Bontempi wallmart style keyboard.
Grim traveller tried to explain, but your response suggested you didn;t really get it? I've just tried to say what a teacher would say to a student submitting this for some marks at school.
It doesn't reflect a commercial release in any way - musically it's a dead end and very under developed a few chords and repeated stabby piano. Drums burst in the clear off again. The synthy moogs bass just plays root notes. Things come in, then go out again. Timbre wise - it's all so similar. So much is identical velocity - so you get very obvious 8th notes all exactly the velocity - normally maybe you'd have 1 and 5 a bit of an accent and every one stutters like a machine gun - all dead on the beat (OK for some styles) but exactly the same length, and in some of them, the sound you chose decays, so it turns into a pulsy long note with no definition. The drums had for big sections kick and hats - didn't like the snare?
I'm worried that this is months of work? Realistically, I'd have guessed an evening? What on earth did you do for months?
It IS poorly mixed, but the material to be mixed is very, very limited. Is there EQ, effects, dynamics on each source?
If your friends provide comments, then they may be musically er, limited, or just great friends who didn't tell you it really isn't very good.
I figured we could just hover around the very obvious problems - but I thought it bst to be really honest. I think you got too involved in the project without realising you were polishing a t**d.
I really don't mean to be negative and I really hope you can take the comments and do something great.
You don't really have a song - just some little bolt together sections played on pretty horrible sounds. Did you play it, or stick it in with a mouse? It's very typical of a keen first timer to music technology who hasn't quite got a handle on how songs work. Usually chords, a melody and rhythm.
If you sent me the MIDI file of it, what would I do? I'd re-record the piano at the start where it's exposed to make it sound like somebody played it. I'd almost certainly scrap the bass and re do that - and find some other sounds for the 'melody' which is just really a sort of riff? The faster piano sounding bit, I'd probably scrap, and I'd do new drums. Whatever that reverse sound was, I'd probably use as that idea worked - but every time it got to the climax, the next bit didn't do anything. More sounds, more variation and some drums that suit. It sounds vaguely 80s - so the synth pop era - so maybe even electronic drums maybe?
Please don't take this as anything other that a truthful observation, but it's not really finished because it's so full of problems that make the listener wonder who produced it.
It's musically boring. It doesn;t go anywhere. There are no clear verses or choruses, it just plods on, and ends.
Secondly, the pallete of sounds is really entry level, cheap and cheerful. No depth to anything, everything like a cheap Bontempi wallmart style keyboard.
Grim traveller tried to explain, but your response suggested you didn;t really get it? I've just tried to say what a teacher would say to a student submitting this for some marks at school.
It doesn't reflect a commercial release in any way - musically it's a dead end and very under developed a few chords and repeated stabby piano. Drums burst in the clear off again. The synthy moogs bass just plays root notes. Things come in, then go out again. Timbre wise - it's all so similar. So much is identical velocity - so you get very obvious 8th notes all exactly the velocity - normally maybe you'd have 1 and 5 a bit of an accent and every one stutters like a machine gun - all dead on the beat (OK for some styles) but exactly the same length, and in some of them, the sound you chose decays, so it turns into a pulsy long note with no definition. The drums had for big sections kick and hats - didn't like the snare?
I'm worried that this is months of work? Realistically, I'd have guessed an evening? What on earth did you do for months?
It IS poorly mixed, but the material to be mixed is very, very limited. Is there EQ, effects, dynamics on each source?
If your friends provide comments, then they may be musically er, limited, or just great friends who didn't tell you it really isn't very good.
I figured we could just hover around the very obvious problems - but I thought it bst to be really honest. I think you got too involved in the project without realising you were polishing a t**d.
I really don't mean to be negative and I really hope you can take the comments and do something great.
You don't really have a song - just some little bolt together sections played on pretty horrible sounds. Did you play it, or stick it in with a mouse? It's very typical of a keen first timer to music technology who hasn't quite got a handle on how songs work. Usually chords, a melody and rhythm.
If you sent me the MIDI file of it, what would I do? I'd re-record the piano at the start where it's exposed to make it sound like somebody played it. I'd almost certainly scrap the bass and re do that - and find some other sounds for the 'melody' which is just really a sort of riff? The faster piano sounding bit, I'd probably scrap, and I'd do new drums. Whatever that reverse sound was, I'd probably use as that idea worked - but every time it got to the climax, the next bit didn't do anything. More sounds, more variation and some drums that suit. It sounds vaguely 80s - so the synth pop era - so maybe even electronic drums maybe?
Please don't take this as anything other that a truthful observation, but it's not really finished because it's so full of problems that make the listener wonder who produced it.
thank you for the feedback it really helps and thank yo for being honest the bass i just copied the bottom notes of the piano chords as i seen other video of people doing that. and i put compression on every instrument OTT i dont really know how to structure a song and i used nexus for some of the piano notes and then i use a mouse for the melody that why it sounds the same my main issue is i dont know how a song is structured and i cant really find eny help on that topic i also mix everything as im afraid its too loud so i dont get a muddy mix and as the midi file i dont really know what a midi file is do you mean the fl studio file ?
i also use the stock piano in fl studiorob aylestone
Moderator
A MIDI file is a common interchange format that has been aro8nd for a long time and lets you swap stuff with others who don't have your DAW.
Songs tend to follow proper structures, so you get (in the simplest terms - intros verses choruses maybe a one-off middle 8 (often 8 bars but sometimes shorter or longer) then something to finish it off. For music of this kind it's OK to do one of each then copy and paste them together with no words, the melody sort of forms the verse. Then the chorus is a bit different. The middle 8 might be missed totally in EDM. That reverse swell sound would perhaps signify going into the chorus? Very few bass parts just play the root note, there are usually twiddly bits and copying the rhythm of the piano chords adds to the robotic feel. Why did you compress everything so it's just a blast of sound? Try to find a similar released track and compare them. Find the music you like in this style and really examine it. break down where things come, where they stop and how different little bits pop in and out of the mix. Then try to pinch these ideas. It sounds like a computer played everything. There's no human stuff in there. It's music but not musical.
Plenty of info on music, music theory, chord progressions - David bennett on youtube has loads of videos on how music works - chords, melodies, rules and often breaks down songs to explain how they work. It will be hard going if your music skills are a bit basic, but learning how others do it works if you try.
I'd probably leave this one now, and start something new.
Songs tend to follow proper structures, so you get (in the simplest terms - intros verses choruses maybe a one-off middle 8 (often 8 bars but sometimes shorter or longer) then something to finish it off. For music of this kind it's OK to do one of each then copy and paste them together with no words, the melody sort of forms the verse. Then the chorus is a bit different. The middle 8 might be missed totally in EDM. That reverse swell sound would perhaps signify going into the chorus? Very few bass parts just play the root note, there are usually twiddly bits and copying the rhythm of the piano chords adds to the robotic feel. Why did you compress everything so it's just a blast of sound? Try to find a similar released track and compare them. Find the music you like in this style and really examine it. break down where things come, where they stop and how different little bits pop in and out of the mix. Then try to pinch these ideas. It sounds like a computer played everything. There's no human stuff in there. It's music but not musical.
Plenty of info on music, music theory, chord progressions - David bennett on youtube has loads of videos on how music works - chords, melodies, rules and often breaks down songs to explain how they work. It will be hard going if your music skills are a bit basic, but learning how others do it works if you try.
I'd probably leave this one now, and start something new.
okey thank you the reason i compress everything is basically that's what the tutorial on youtube say and thank you for the guy david bennet i will check him out as its been hard finding good music theory i mainly followed those youtube videos like savage sounds like how to make edm like avicii budt he dont really explain alot of stuff
rob aylestone
Moderator
The snag with youtube videos is that the person doing it has to assume the people watching understand what they're hearing. Like your compression thing. if you put notes in with mice or patterns then you might discover that every single note is velocity value 100. Stuffing a compressor on it does nothing at all, because the dynamics are not changing. Let's say you did a tune where every other note was quiet - so note 1=velocity 25 and the next note was maximum, velocity 127. The compressor would change this to perhaps 70/127, but on music without any dynamics, nothing happens - even worse, piano notes decay, but the compressor keeps them high. This might make that bass sound loads worse, because if it went ding ding ding - after compression it will be going dinginging. Hi hats in EDM are always a real mix of velocities with emphasis on maybe the 1,5,9,13 of each 16 beats, but maybe with the 13th being higher - whatever the song writer wanted to make it groove. in EDM it's the groove, and the bass will work with it to drive the song.
Why not search for some internet MIDI files of songs you know, and import these into your DAW then inspect each part and see what they're actually doing. Be careful because sometimes MIDI files have been done by excellent musos, and others by ten year olds with no music skills at all. Comparing them will really give you clues.
Why not search for some internet MIDI files of songs you know, and import these into your DAW then inspect each part and see what they're actually doing. Be careful because sometimes MIDI files have been done by excellent musos, and others by ten year olds with no music skills at all. Comparing them will really give you clues.
This is the same piece you submitted a few weeks ago looking for a melody/lyrics to go with it. And you received some of the same criticisms then regarding the song, it's dynamics, etc...
Are you a musician? Meaning, are you fluent in playing any instruments to where you have a sense of music theory and how the notes work in relation to working within scales or chord structure? Feeling a groove?
In todays digital world, it's easy for non musicians to slap a bunch of sounds and patterns together to make a composition in fruity loops, and that's what you get. A bunch of sounds and patterns slapped together.
The variables that come with recording / home recording are vast. And the more you learn how to tackle these variables will greatly improve your songs and mixes. Since you aren't playing / tracking any instruments you bypassed the variables that come with tracking. The one thing I hear in your mix is that it appears everything is panned at 12 oclock. I hear nothing that is predominately left or right. And your sounds are colliding with one another as they each don't have their own space in the mix. Proper panning is crucial to any mix. Add the dynamic issues that Rob points out are another part of the process. Tracking, mixing, mastering, are three different monsters that require their own processes to bring about one final product. And the learning curve on each is steep and with time, practice, tutorials, and a lot of trial and error can be attainable in all three phases of the recording / mixing process.
It appears you have the eagerness to learn and take criticism to help improve, which is great. You can learn from the varying opinions and the experience of others to help you gain knowledge.
In the end though, if you are happy with it, it doesn't matter what we all think. It's your creation. Put it out there if you want.
Are you a musician? Meaning, are you fluent in playing any instruments to where you have a sense of music theory and how the notes work in relation to working within scales or chord structure? Feeling a groove?
In todays digital world, it's easy for non musicians to slap a bunch of sounds and patterns together to make a composition in fruity loops, and that's what you get. A bunch of sounds and patterns slapped together.
The variables that come with recording / home recording are vast. And the more you learn how to tackle these variables will greatly improve your songs and mixes. Since you aren't playing / tracking any instruments you bypassed the variables that come with tracking. The one thing I hear in your mix is that it appears everything is panned at 12 oclock. I hear nothing that is predominately left or right. And your sounds are colliding with one another as they each don't have their own space in the mix. Proper panning is crucial to any mix. Add the dynamic issues that Rob points out are another part of the process. Tracking, mixing, mastering, are three different monsters that require their own processes to bring about one final product. And the learning curve on each is steep and with time, practice, tutorials, and a lot of trial and error can be attainable in all three phases of the recording / mixing process.
It appears you have the eagerness to learn and take criticism to help improve, which is great. You can learn from the varying opinions and the experience of others to help you gain knowledge.
In the end though, if you are happy with it, it doesn't matter what we all think. It's your creation. Put it out there if you want.
i know basic chord Progress with 3 notes that's pretty much it. if i make a new song should i then first mix and eq and compress in the end or as long as i go im going to by a mini keyboard and use that to play on
i didnt know that with the compression thing as they didnt really explain budt it really help with youre indept explaining on compression again thank you for spending time explaining it to me
should i just make a song and then mix it or should i mix it as i go on each pattern ? i also dont play eny instrument i wanna learn the piano as far i only know the 3 scale chords. also i really want people to listen to give feedback as i want others to listen to it and think its also good i will look into gving my music more variation does variation matter on kicks 808 etc ? or only to hi hats
TalismanRich
Well-known member
PSL, can I make a recommendation? There are things called punctuation marks. Periods, commas and question marks. Use them, along with capital letters at the beginning of sentences. It makes things so much easier for people to understand what you're writing.
rob aylestone
Moderator
If you can't play an instrument then you are limited to loop based music. I don;t know what you mean by 3 scale chords? 3 note chords maybe? With chords, you get progressions and songs tend to follow very dictated progressions. They also have Major and minor chords. The problem is that there are rules within music. If you start on one chord, you find certain other chords work well, but some work badly. This is where you need to do some work.
The key feature is that most people mimic real instruments. You can find a guitar sound, but it won't work until you find out how to enter the notes in the way a guitarist would. It means lots of work and lots of research. Some people have a natural music skill - they instinctively know what sounds 'right'. In effect, they know the rules of music without needing to learn them.
The key feature is that most people mimic real instruments. You can find a guitar sound, but it won't work until you find out how to enter the notes in the way a guitarist would. It means lots of work and lots of research. Some people have a natural music skill - they instinctively know what sounds 'right'. In effect, they know the rules of music without needing to learn them.
i wasnt so good in school so i didnt really learn that budt i know
okey i think i understand i will try this on my next song im going to make im buying a mini keyboard
to use that so i get that variation in the notesrob aylestone
Moderator
Make sure you buy one that has pitch bend and mod wheel - must be velocity sensitive but you probably won't want aftertouch. One with pads can be great for doing drums too. They're often on ebay. Before you try, make sure you understand what Majors and minors are, and probably things like 6ths, 7ths and Major 7ths. Most songs need maybe 4 chords, some 3 and a few are just two different chords.
could you list a couple of midi keyboards you suggest are good
rob aylestone
Moderator
I think you would be better served with an inexpensive midi keyboard that has full size keys. If you don't want to spend for new, there are plenty of used options on Ebay or Facebook Marketplace. 4 octaves with pitchbend and modwheel should allow you to do what you want. They generally just plug into a USB port and are recognized by your computer.
i will buy the m audio keystation mini32