I owe sonusman and Ametth an apology... well... sorta...

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Blue Bear Sound

Blue Bear Sound

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I owe sonusman and ametth an apology... well... sorta...

While I have always contended that a POD (or the Pro version) never gave me a decent clean sound, I didn't quite believe the difference between a mic'd tube amp and the sound of a POD would be as dramatic as they made it out to be.

Yes, the POD is a useful tool... but no... it's not even close to the sound of a mic'd tube amp.

I recently purchased a modest Fender Blues JR for use in the studio (my quest for a good clean sound never abatted - and it led me to finally trying out a tube amp.)

Even with such a basic creature as the Blues Jr, the sound is GREAT.... there's a subtle, yet distinct, difference in the attack and decay of the notes that doesn't come across on the POD at all.... for both clean and dirty sounds - mind you, the Blues Jr will not give you a death metal tone.... at best a 70's heavy rock sound.

So... not starting a war - those who know me know I'm only half a gear snob... the POD is still a reasonable tool providing many different colors in a relatively small package - BUT... it still ain't got the tube sound.

Bruce
 
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I agree. Among other tube amps, I sometimes use a 1970 Fender Bantam Bass amp with either 212's or 410's. I love it.

At the risk of sounding painfully obvious, with any powerful tube amp, the 10's give a nice mid-punch. I think alot of your different tones are in the different cab's.

T.J.Hooker:cool:
 
Bottom line... the POD is a bunch of silicon, all proccessed sound. it's two dimensional. That'a why you hear everybody talk about layering with it. Tubes breath with your playing. Loads more dynamic control. I have a Mesa Boogie and Fender Twin. I couldn't due without that staple. Living without the POD is much, much easier.
 
I love my crate vintage style amp

I bought one of these about 5 years ago cause I was too poor for Marshall...and the very smart salesman asked who I liked ..I told him and he assured me Neil Young would be playing thru Tube amps..not using the distortion on a Digitech RP12.

4 years later, and with my Korg A4 processor, I still cannot create a better guitar sound...Line 6 gear is good for some stuff, and nice tones when I can't get a Matchless or a VOX, but on stage, and in life, I'll take my tubes whenever possible over the POD or Flextone amp...(and I own them both) - I can feel and hear the difference...and sometimes people will recognize me after a gig a day or two later and still go on about the cool tone...

So no changes here...(unless I want to A/B the amps and take them both on stage...now THAT'S cool)

RB
 
Come on POD lovers, where are you now? Everytime I say that the POD is a poor replacement for a tube amp everybody freaks out and says, "oh yeah, well check this tone!" and they post something that sounds like a POD.

The POD is really impressive, especially if you let yourself get used to it. I remember I had an experience similar to bruce...I was trying to record a song and was ripping off the Pixies...trying to get a good doolittle tone out of the POD....nowhere to be found. Went to the music store and plugged into a fender princeton, and there it was. No tweeking, no deep editing software, just a power button. For my recording I ended up using a Sansamp Bass DI box through an ART pre which sounded ok...better than the POD clean.

My problem is that I'm a cheapskate. Damnit! I justify all these gizmos instead of saving up for what is truely required.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Ill state my opinion again....Does a Pod, J-Station, etc. sound good?...Yes....Will it replace/reproduce a nice tube amp mic'ed correctly...Never....The serious recording artist may find a use for it here and there, but these products will never replace amps and mics and I dont seriously think thats what they are intended for...for the guy like me who is just doing half-assed demos and likes alot of different flavors yet doesnt have the $$$ to have a Fender, a Marshall, a Boogie, a Vox, etc. etc. much less a nice enough room to record it in to do it justice....therefore, I love my J-Station and all of its shortcomings.....

Imagine wanting a vilon part on one of your recordings...what do you do, go out and buy a violin?...no, you get a synth to play it....same idea.....

Bruce, shame on you for thinking in the first place that you could get that BEAUTIFUL Fender tube amp sound out of a box.....
 
Bruce...Bruce...Bruce....
A pro NEVER admits he's wrong....I have my doubts about you.......
 
Hey now.... I *never* said I was wrong - I simply was "enlightened"!!!!!! ;)

:D :D

Bruce
 
The POD will never be clean!

I did not read the replies to this thread before responding because from my ear...THE POD WILL NEVER BE CLEAN.

I bought the POD & was very impressed w/ it's OD & distortions. Almost sold the Boss GT-3 but kept it for it's superb Twin model. I record direct due to circumstances & the GT3 is IT. Clean, warm, full & all the Boss catalog effects. Both make up for the other one's short falls. What a combo I have!!

Bluebear ALMOST giving an apology...had to see this one.
 
I have a POD. I use the POD. I prefer tube amps (JCM 800, etal). I live in a residential subdivision. I have a wife and two small kids. I record in my basement.

Great tube amp tone vs POD? Not applicable.

Playing in a club or whatever? Bring on the tube amp.
 
How do you folks define "clean"?

Doesn't a true clean sound lack any and all distortion? Distortion is anything that alters the original guitar's input signal, not necessarily clipping or cut-off or anything that might generate harmonics. Chris said "Tubes breath with your playing", which is one of the most accurate explanations I have heard for the preference of tube over SS amps; however, I am under the impression that this breathing is in itself a form of distortion. In this case the signal is being altered primarily in amplitude - isn't this what the so called "sag" is of the (usually poorly-regulated) tube amplifier? The amp also colors the guitar signal's frequency spectrum, which is the classic definition of "tone", isn't it.

So, I sense that what you folks describe as clean is really a colored sound that also responds to picking dynamics. And I would take it a bit further to claim that none of us would really enjoy a technically clean (purely amplified) guitar signal, aside from this power supply rectifier-induced voltage sag.

My conclusion is that we all seem to misuse the term "clean" and don't really prefer it! We also seem to be misusing the word "tone", which to me has always implied spectral content, not the adaptive behavior of the amplifying device. Do you concur?
 
I Concur!

Tube amps are not clean. Unless your playing with the volume on 1 maybe. I usually turn my Tube amp on about 20 minutes prior to playing. The warmer the tubes, the better they sound. (within reason ofcourse). Someone should tell guitar companies (Marshall valvestate, Peavey transtube) this. If you want the tube sound, you don't simulate it with a solid state unit. Also, unless your Sonny Crockett (Miami Vice). If you want a ferrari daytona, You don't make one out of a vette.:p


COOL,
T.J.Hooker :cool:
 
Let me say though!

Tubes are not clean. But that doesn't mean your recording can't be clean. If your recording a distorted guitar, you want the distortion on the guitar, not in the recording. ;)


T.J.Hooker:cool:
 
>Even with such a basic creature as the Blues Jr, the sound is GREAT.... there's a subtle,
yet distinct, difference in the attack and decay of the notes that doesn't come across on the POD at all....

That's exactly what I always felt about the Pod...especially the attack part. Just not as lively and snappy, dynamic, etc etc...still pretty good basic tones though and definitely useable for my home recordings, but playing thru my Classic 30 is more funner. :P
 
Elco, that's about the way I feel. Actually I'm starting to become more and more aware of the how differently the POD sounds in the mix vs a real mic'd setup. You might laugh, but I can actually get better recorded sounds by runniing the POD through a Peavey Rage ("neutralized" eq - clean) and micing it via sm57 as opposed to simply going direct. No tubes, but at least there's air - and I can keep it at a more manageable volume. What I need is a small Laney or something. I tried the LC15 and was quite impressed with it - especially for the price - comparable to a Blues jr but much cheaper.
 
Lately I've been running a Line6 Distortion modeler (GASP!) through my POD on a clean sound (yes, a CLEAN SOUND, of which there are plenty). In fact, all of my POD sounds are set to clean currently, except the Soldanos and the Recto models, which don't really go clean. So horror of horrors, I am using software models of analog, non-tube distortion pedals into a software model of a tube amplifier into a software model of a speaker, then into some other software where I mix and apply software models fo effects, and blah blah blah. I have never gotten anything but raves on the sounds I get with my POD. It's great to listen to a bunch of people who would never own something blasting it, obviously we should all bow down to someone else's ears...

but seriously, every time I see this thread pop up, I just keep thinking about how insane it was when I first saw a CD. "I'll never own one of those CD Players," I thought, while I lovingly carressed my soon-to-be-obsolete record collection. Remember when no one had cell phones? Only drug dealers had pagers? etc. Technology happens, and it kicks your ass sometimes, and you go on. Because to be honest, I saw the Line6 Vetta at NAMM, and it was sick. The tech is only getting better people; so I don't see why we insist on freezing the evolution of guitar tone at 1960.

I would post some of my sounds, but I know that it would be like holding the Rodney King trial in Simi Valley, there ain't an objective ear in the house.

Luckily, for my tone to sound good, I don't need the approval of any tube amp lovers. There is no more life in a tube than there is in a wall, and there is no magic in any piece of guitar gear that isn't brought to the table by the guitarist. If y'all have such fantastic tone, post some samples! I have frankly heard very few really good guitar sounds in the MP3 clinic, POD or no POD (although some of the POD sounds kick ass!). Next you're all gonna be bitching about Stevie Ray's tone because he besmirched the lovely pure sounds of his glowing magical tubes with a $50 Tube Screamer.
 
charger... charger... charger...

*shakes head*

You missed MY point completely... I was NOT saying the POD sucks... I was NOT saying it shouldn't be used... I was NOT saying tube-amp uber alles.........

What I WAS saying was that I *did* notice a difference in the timbre and tone of the sound, also in the attack and decay of the notes, between the POD and the tube amp.

I also SAID - the POD is a versatile and flexible studio tool... useful for a variety of purposes in different situations...

I beleive I also said I wasn't trying to start a religious war - I was pointing out my observation from recent experiences in using a tube amp. Take from it what you will, but don't make more out of it than I actually said.

Bruce
 
Actually, I was replying to the thread and not specifically to you, Bruce.

Slack, a "good" Pixies Dolittle tone? Although I LOVE the Pixies, I would never go so far as to say they had any good guitar tones (except that clean tone on "Hey" is pretty juicy.) For Pixies distortion sounds, plug your distortion pedal straight out of your Boss distortion Pedal and into the board! They do have killer drum sounds though, esp. on Surfer Rosa, the first time I heard that Albini sound.

I would challenge anyone who claims the POD sound is "two-dimensional" to post a "3-dimensional," non-POD sound. I'm dying to hear what 3 dimensions sound like, and how the POD can't achieve them.
 
Forgive me then charger... I saw the accented references to "clean" and thought you were directing it at my original post.

Apologies...

Bruce
 
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