I need some ACOUSTIC guitar experts on the subject of steel VS nylon...

Your Martin shouldn't be difficult to play and you shouldn't be experiencing cramps in the hand. C7 suggested having the saddle lowered and that's good advice (is Saddle the right term? The white piece the strings are on). What's the string height at the 12th fret?

You got a nice expensive guitar and you would think it should be set up when you bought it, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't. When I got mine, I took it to a local luthier and he noted all kinds of problems with the neck. Albeit, mine is on the lower end of the Martin line. (Made in Mexico, I call it a Marteen. lol.)
 
Chili said:
Your Martin shouldn't be difficult to play and you shouldn't be experiencing cramps in the hand. C7 suggested having the saddle lowered and that's good advice (is Saddle the right term? The white piece the strings are on). What's the string height at the 12th fret?

You got a nice expensive guitar and you would think it should be set up when you bought it, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't. When I got mine, I took it to a local luthier and he noted all kinds of problems with the neck. Albeit, mine is on the lower end of the Martin line. (Made in Mexico, I call it a Marteen. lol.)
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Try holding a F bar chord for 20 minutes and see if your hand gets strained a bit. It's not hard to play it, just not as easy to play as a nylon lol. I'm just going for what's easier and I want to get some new guitars anyways LOL.
 
FoulPhil said:
LOL! Yeah 3mm big stubby picks. There is actually a good reason to use such a thick pick. They are very sharp pointed. And with the thickness and sharp point it slides off the strings with super speed. I started using them many years ago when I was first learning to shred with tremolo picking styles. The only problem is I tend to wear down the point fairly quickly and have to order the 2 dozen packs a few times a year. Another benefit of using them is that on acoustic guitars they tend to produce a thicker, more wooden or earthy tone than picks that are thinner and made from different materials. It's actually a very noticeable difference in tone and not one of those things that only people with "blessed ears" can hear. They are a bit odd at first, but a 3 pack of them is only a few bucks and worth a try :D
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I've got a few 2mm graphite picks but never liked the feel of them. I have a bunch of picks made from bull horns and they are very stiff and stick to my thumb and finger pretty well. Lately I have been using ebony picks that are probably 1.75-2mm thick.

I never play with the point, always with the rounded edges. I think it gives a more complex and not quite as bright tone as using the point.
 
It sounds like you could do with investing a bit of time in to your technique. I don't mean that in a bad way but if bar chords for extended periods are causing you problems you need to increase you range of options. I have played for 35 years now and still play probably 4-5 gigs a week, everything from Jump Jive, straight jazz, blues and covers bands, folk stuff, fingerstyle etc... and I don't suppose I've played a full bar chord for as far back as I can remember. I can play for hours and not cramp up and I'm sure that's down in part to practice and the rest down to techniques and finding ways to get the sounds I want out of whatever instrument I'm playing. A chord has three notes you don't need all six strings all the time. If you leave that finger in the same place all the time it's going to cramp. Move it around... ;)
 
muttley600 said:
It sounds like you could do with investing a bit of time in to your technique. I don't mean that in a bad way but if bar chords for extended periods are causing you problems you need to increase you range of options. I have played for 35 years now and still play probably 4-5 gigs a week, everything from Jump Jive, straight jazz, blues and covers bands, folk stuff, fingerstyle etc... and I don't suppose I've played a full bar chord for as far back as I can remember. I can play for hours and not cramp up and I'm sure that's down in part to practice and the rest down to techniques and finding ways to get the sounds I want out of whatever instrument I'm playing. A chord has three notes you don't need all six strings all the time. If you leave that finger in the same place all the time it's going to cramp. Move it around... ;)
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That, especially for the acoustic, is the key.
 
muttley600 said:
It sounds like you could do with investing a bit of time in to your technique. I don't mean that in a bad way but if bar chords for extended periods are causing you problems you need to increase you range of options. I have played for 35 years now and still play probably 4-5 gigs a week, everything from Jump Jive, straight jazz, blues and covers bands, folk stuff, fingerstyle etc... and I don't suppose I've played a full bar chord for as far back as I can remember. I can play for hours and not cramp up and I'm sure that's down in part to practice and the rest down to techniques and finding ways to get the sounds I want out of whatever instrument I'm playing. A chord has three notes you don't need all six strings all the time. If you leave that finger in the same place all the time it's going to cramp. Move it around... ;)
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Word. My hand just seems to get tired. Sometimes I play chords in different ways to go for a certain sound I guess. You can play an F Major Chord with out barring the whole chord, you're right, but the problem is I feel like I get a louder more complex sounding chord when I bar the whole thing. And at that point I'm singing a bit louder so if I don't play it a certain way I hear my voice louder than my guitar, which I don't like LOL. I could try to tone it down, but man I just like to close my eyes and get into it. I have awesome concerts for myself with no need for an audience what so ever. Although these are all really good suggestions, I'm still leaning towards switching from steel to nylon just because it's so easy for me to play. I'm probably making it sound like I'm struggling with the steel string, but I'm really not. Nylon just seems so much easier for me to play for some reason. It's like as, if not more, easy than an electric guitar and that's making it much more fun for me. It's got it's down side as well as I've tried to explain. :thumbs up:
 
3mm - WOW! I use Fender Heavy, which is something like 1.1mm. A guy I was talking to a few weeks ago had these big triangular clear picks that were about 2mm, way too thick for my taste. I had to borrow a pick one night when I left the house without any, it was pretty thin, probably 0.6mm. I couldn't play worth shit with it!

For the nylon string guitar - if you want volume, but clear sound, try out the Taylor 312ce-N and 314ce-N | Taylor Guitars. Both are solid wood - spruce and sapele and sound great. If you don't want the cutaway and want to save money, the Taylor 214e-N has a good sound for a rosewood laminate body. They are about $900 new, you might find a used one.
 
Check out Jerry Reed, he is playing nylon on many of the videos. It is matter of style.
 
You need to try Tomastic Infeld Custom S strings. Made in Austria. They have even less measurable tension than nylon and so are safe for a classical neck. They are incredible. Easier to finger than nylon; very loud. The first three strings are nylon tape wound on rope core. The last three are silver plated copper flat wound on rope core. They are pricey but because of the silver, they last forever. When it is time to change strings you don't hear it in tone. They just become a bit dicey to tune. That's when it is time for a new set. Give 'em a try. I doubt that you will be disappointed.
 
It's may be mentioned elsewhere here, but do whatever floats your boat. If you like playing nylon stringed guitars, by all means do that. I won't get into the differences between steel and classical (nylon) guitars but, as you know, they are quite different instruments intended for different types of performance.
Nonetheless I always felt the best way to improve my own skill at guitar is to practice on a relatively high action, steel stringed acoustic. Everything plays like butter after that. I fear that way too many young guitarists go to electric too early - before they have any mastering of technique. So., my advice - if you really want to get your technique down - play the steel string acoustic regularly.
Then go ahead and record yourself on the classical guitar if that is what you like.
My two cents. Best regards.
 
JR15108 said:
It's may be mentioned elsewhere here, but do whatever floats your boat. If you like playing nylon stringed guitars, by all means do that. I won't get into the differences between steel and classical (nylon) guitars but, as you know, they are quite different instruments intended for different types of performance.
Nonetheless I always felt the best way to improve my own skill at guitar is to practice on a relatively high action, steel stringed acoustic. Everything plays like butter after that. I fear that way too many young guitarists go to electric too early - before they have any mastering of technique. So., my advice - if you really want to get your technique down - play the steel string acoustic regularly.
Then go ahead and record yourself on the classical guitar if that is what you like.
My two cents. Best regards.
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Thanks buddy. That's basically what I've done lol. I think I'm just getting lazy and am seriously enjoying the ease that comes with a nylon guitar. Everything I play got 75% easier to play which I think in turn makes my guitar playing better as well because it's so damn easy. Maybe I'm just being LAZY. I'm a huge fan of steel string acoustics. I've even told friends to learn to play their stuff on a good acoustic because it'll make it easier on their electrics. One of my buddies claims it doesn't work, but I don't think he really tried. I told him to master arpeggios on steel string and you'll be shredding like button on electric, but nobody listens to me :D

I just need a room full of guitars so when I'm in the mood for which ever I'll be able to do it. I just wish the ones I want weren't so expensive. I can't take them with me when I die so I try to keep it to a 4 guitar 2 bass minimum. I keep one electric guitar tuned to B standard and one to E standard. 5 string bass guitar covers both tuning. I always keep my acoustics tuned E standard. I just need to add a few more acoustics guitars and I should be done. I think I need a nylon Martin and a Larrivee D-40 so I can get some hog tones without it being such a major investment. :guitar:
 
You may be fortunate to grow older one day and not be bothered with arthritis in your fingers. I can tell you that on some evenings my pinky appreciates that I've been playing with nylon.

Now, it may be like the coal miner who begins to prefer the dark, but there are certain tones I get with my nylons that just ring nice to my ears. Maybe the guitar is sympathetic to nylon strings in my favorite keys, but maybe it's just me being sympathetic with the kind of playing I do. And sometimes it just sounds like dunk-dunky-ol-nylons.

If you can get someone else to hear what you hear and tell you, "Yep, that's a really nice tone you get on that part," then that's something you can bank on. But, if nobody volunteers that comment, and you have to fish for it, then maybe not.
 
SamWattRock said:
You may be fortunate to grow older one day and not be bothered with arthritis in your fingers. I can tell you that on some evenings my pinky appreciates that I've been playing with nylon.

Now, it may be like the coal miner who begins to prefer the dark, but there are certain tones I get with my nylons that just ring nice to my ears. Maybe the guitar is sympathetic to nylon strings in my favorite keys, but maybe it's just me being sympathetic with the kind of playing I do. And sometimes it just sounds like dunk-dunky-ol-nylons.

If you can get someone else to hear what you hear and tell you, "Yep, that's a really nice tone you get on that part," then that's something you can bank on. But, if nobody volunteers that comment, and you have to fish for it, then maybe not.
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Yeah buddy that's what I'm thinking. Sometimes it sounds just right, but sometimes it sounds a little dinky too lol. I think a nicer guitar would help a lot. You can't really expect much from a $30 dollar guitar, but it's enough to get me started while I search for a nice nylon guitar.

I'm really down with a vintage Martin 00-18G because you can still find them in decent condition and in the $800 to $1500 dollar price range. I don't really want a "traditional" classical guitar or anything too fancy. I'm looking for that middle ground of price and value. In my experience it's not worth buying guitars that are too cheap unless you're getting a CHEAP deal. Like the $30 dollar CL special I got LOL. In this case I would rather go old than new. Normally I would prefer a new instrument. I just really love those sweet tones.

 
there's a lot here - and this may have been discussed in other posts - if I duplicate others responses my apologies.

- A "good" acoustic guitar is not particularly hard to play - at least it can be much easier to play than a "not so good" acoustic.
- I have a Larivee (OM-3 model I think) and it's pretty easy to play. Before I got the Larivee (couldn't afford anything very good prior to it) I thought acoustics were hard to play, but now I don't. I think the quality of the instrument for playability makes a much bigger difference than it does for electrics. I actually like cheap electrics. Cheap acoustics can be terrible.
- While I have a Larivee - I also thought Taylors were very nice - but Taylors are very expensive now and I liked the Larivee almost as and I could afford it.
- I tend to hit the low E string pretty hard when I play and this often causes buzz on acoustics (I have to be careful when I play to avoid it). Listen particularly for buzzing when playing. Even after a setup I still have to be careful because I play very hard on electrics, and changing to acoustics I have to consciously ease up and not thump the strings so hard.
- I got the OM model from Larivee. It's code for "orchestral model" and it's a smaller body size than the dreadnaught size. I liked the bright chimey tones and the ease with which it played. It's also more comfortable to play in my opinion. The dreadnaughts will have a more beefy sound but lacked the air of the OM especially with finger picking, and to me are a little uncomfortable to hug my arm around. But the bigger boxes have a great sound for lots of types of music - especially chugging strumming type songs.
- Nylon's going to sound like nylon. It's fine for some things, but you're going to be sonically limited. That's fine, but just analyze the stuff you want to play and see if needs the steel string sound. Almost everything I play acoustically needs the steel string acoustic sound.
- check craigslist to save $. Some great deals can be found.

good luck with it.
 
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