I need horns!

[Englebert]

Haya!

I would like to hear your recommendations for a good horn sample libraries/softsynths. I´m looking for soul/jazz horns: trumpets, trombones and saxes of all sizes. They would be used mainly as arranging help. I play in a big band and I can get good players to do the final parts if necessary, but some good "preliminary" sounds would make composing and arranging much more efficient (not to mention fun), since I´m not yet very experienced in writing for horns. My ultimate goal is a magnum big band opus that will secure me a place in jazz pantheon with Ellington, Basie & co...

I´m also thinking about sampling my own horn patches (w/ Vsampler). Would it be worth the effort or should I forget it? Any tips are appreciated.

 

[Porter]

Have you tried just using MIDI? I know it's not as glorious as Sound Fonts or samples, however it get's the job done.

I'm actually in the same seat as you at the moment.. I have a couple of Big Band tunes going around in my head, and best of all I'll probably have a Big Band that will play them for me (I know the band master!). I'm going to start off with General MIDI sounds, then give my charts to the band master to write in the appropriate after-touches.

Good luck by the way,

Porter

 

[James Argo]

I'm satisfied with soundfonts from sonic implants came with SONAR 2XL CD. Or I'll use some patches from my Korg N364

I can't explain in words the tricks, but you need to know how to sequence them right to sound better. Think as horn player... what's possible, and what's not. Understand their "feel" will help you alot for gaining "in your face" horn section using synth..

Come on, you can do it !!! It's all fun

Kiitos, moi moi...

Jaymz

 

[moskus]

Have you tried just using MIDI? I know it's not as glorious as Sound Fonts or samples, however it get's the job done.

I just want to clarify:

Midi can use SoundFonts and samples as a soundsource (or your onboard synth or an external source such as a synth). Midi is just the messages.

Porter, you know this...

 

[Porter]

Yes Moskus, I know that.. except I didn't explain it that way. I just ment more to use General MIDI/basic sound canvas (VSC etc) sounds as opposed to the Sound Fonts...

Porter

 

[Englebert]

I can't explain in words the tricks, but you need to know how to sequence them right to sound better. Think as horn player... what's possible, and what's not. Understand their "feel" will help you alot for gaining "in your face" horn section using synth..

Come on, you can do it !!! It's all fun

Yeah, I have played in that big band for 8 years and I still often feel completely clueless in the mysterious world of horns. Maybe I need more practice. But I still think most synth horns sound pretty cheesy; I´ve heard some semi-decent trombones, but trumpets and saxes (especially altos)...ugh... I can´t explain it, but they just seem to lack the "grit" and expressivity. The brass doesn´t have the power and saxes don´t have the warmth I associate them with. At best they are just too clinical, and at worst... think bad FM synths from 80´s!

Kiitos, moi moi...

Jaymz

Morjens itselles ja kiitos!

Where did you learn that?

 

[BloodShark]

Englebert, try using Sonic Implants soundfonts. They sound very bright and clean, and its power is enough for me tough.

It's worth to give a try.

 

[James Argo]

Morjens itselles ja kiitos!

Where did you learn that?

My younger brother used to study in Joensuu University (Now he's in Maroco for a year)... he told me many words, those two is all I can remember...

Anyway, you're right... I think I always used Sax and Alto from my Korg N364... It's not the best, but beats any soundfonts I know Was the sample taken from Louis Armstrong ? I dunno... Thank's.


Jaymz

 

[Englebert]

My younger brother used to study in Joensuu University (Now he's in Maroco for a year)... he told me many words, those two is all I can remember...

Anyway, you're right... I think I always used Sax and Alto from my Korg N364... It's not the best, but beats any soundfonts I know Was the sample taken from Louis Armstrong ? I dunno... Thank's.


Jaymz

Funny, most people remember only Finnish curse words. Kudos to you!

Don´t know about Louis´ sax sound, but I sure would like to have sampled his trumpet, let alone his voice...

 

[mace]

Hello Englebert,

Have to say it's very hard to find good horn and brass
samples, especially for soul, jazz and R&B (there are
quite lot sample libraries for classical).

But there are some goodies on some Akai Brass sample-cds
like Killer Horns (mainly brass licks but also multisamples for
sax, trumpet and trombone, not brass section and only one
velocity,scoring: 7+),Brass SuperSection (more multisamples
and more detailed than KH, only some licks and again no
brass section multisamples, only single horn multisamples,
scoring: , Chronic Horns ( no experience with this but
this is basically horn licks library, Chronic Horns 2 is
3-CD audio /wav-format library with excellent reviews),
Phantom Horns (haven't heard bur again brass licks and
multisamples and also with brass section, I have got the feeling
this is one of better brass libraries, there is also cheaper version
in prosamples series only 50 euros).

There is also Quamtum Leap Brass in Giga format 5-CD collection,
very nice and detailed but not cheap, for both pop & rockand classical, also cheaper version in prosamples for both por/rock
and classical but naturally much much lesser samples!

Oh, I almost forgot; there is plenty of horn samples in
Computer Music issue 60 and I have them but haven't
checked how bad or good these are!

 

[mace]

Haya!

I
I´m also thinking about sampling my own horn patches (w/ Vsampler). Would it be worth the effort or should I forget it? Any tips are appreciated.

This is quite nice idea and I would be very intrested to
collaborate if you live somewhere nearby Helsinki!

But what you need mostly is good players with good tune!
And lot of time and proper recording and editing equipment!

 

[Englebert]

Re: Re: I need horns!

This is quite nice idea and I would be very intrested to
collaborate if you live somewhere nearby Helsinki!

I live in Helsinki and that would be cool! However, it´s not a job for today or even tomorrow since I´m busy as hell right now. Maybe in november...I´ll PM you.

But what you need mostly is good players with good tune!
And lot of time and proper recording and editing equipment!

That´s absolutely true, but I think I can get a pretty good bunch of players together for this project. And when it comes to editing... "nysväys" is my middle name! I can tweak for hours and hours without food or sleep - although I almost always get back to where I started.

BTW, I got the idea of making own brass samples when I recorded a short TV jingle with our band. Horns played a short melody with few long notes. At the mixing stage I started to think:"Little more brass would be nice...", but I didn´t have the time or urge to do any more recording. So I copy/pasted and pitch shifted the long notes and built a pyramid-style chord from nowhere... and it sounded fantastic! It was surprisingly easy so I started to think about sampling.

 

[mace]

Cool!

Very cool indeed,Englebert!

I am more and more intested to this and there is
huge demand for good brass sounds!

I think that brass and horns generally is the most
difficult to sample; I haven't heard good realistic sampled
sax anywhere! Neither trumpet or trombone!

Would you dare to solo with sampled sax? Uhh, no way!
There is this ambitious Bigga Gigga Sac project nad it
goes quite deep to articultions etc, but regarding to
demoes I've heard It won't fool anyone to believe
it's real sax!

Oh, do I dare to dream about Jazz Solo Flute!!!
That would be extra cool!
There is world full of classical flutes (a la Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds, Advanced Orchestra and Miroslav Vitous etc.)
but not one flute capable for jazz&soul solong like
Dave Valentin, Hubert Laws, Herbie Mann etc.

And for good jazzy guitar a la Benson there is high demand
too!

 

[Englebert]

Re: Cool!

Very cool indeed,Englebert!
I think that brass and horns generally is the most
difficult to sample; I haven't heard good realistic sampled
sax anywhere! Neither trumpet or trombone!

Talk about it! I think the "breath factor" is main reason why brass and other wind instruments are so difficult to sample. It´s like sampling the human voice. Maybe physical modelling can some day achieve decent emulation...but even then you would propably need some sort of breath controller to play it convincingly.

 

[faderbug]

what does "nysväys" mean in english?

 

[Englebert]

what does "nysväys" mean in english?

Heh... no exact translation comes to mind right now. I guess "tweaking small (even insignificant) details" is quite near. It´s mostly used in slightly negative context, like: "Stop that f**ing ´nysväys´ and concentrate on big picture."

Or something.

 

[mace2]

Englebert, still interested in sampling Horns?
If so, please pm me!

 

[Qwerty]

It´s mostly used in slightly negative context, like: "Stop that f**ing ´nysväys´ and concentrate on big picture."

It's a long walk back to Eden so stop sweating the small stuff?

Q.

Stephen King, not me.