I need help recording at even levels

[bball_1523]

I have a problem where I will record a rhythm guitar track and double track it. Then when I record a melody or lead, the volumes just won't match with the double tracked rhythm, even if I double the lead. I try to mess with the volume for each, but I have a hard time matching.

My gear is: M-audio Firewire solo, Ibanez electric guitar, Shure sm57, NI Guitar Rig and Adobe Audition.

Do you guys have a solution to this?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Turn down the rhythm parts using the mixer faders!

 

[bball_1523]

Turn down the rhythm parts using the mixer faders!

forgot to mention my gear (above). I don't have a mixer.

 

[AlexW]

Does your DAW software have a mixer?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

No, Audition does not have a seperate mixer panel per se. You record directly into the multitrack editor. Each channel does have a typical volume setting like most editors which mimics a channel strip trim control (and initial mixing volume control), but it does not have any faders to ride.

He might need to apply some compression to recorded guitar tracks to get them to sit "tight", especially if he's going direct in. Or he might need to rubber band the levels on his tracks to get the parts to sit right together through the different passages of the song.

G.

 

[aaroncomp]

No, Audition does not have a seperate mixer panel per se. You record directly into the multitrack editor. Each channel does have a typical volume setting like most editors which mimics a channel strip trim control (and initial mixing volume control), but it does not have any faders to ride.
G.

Excuse my ignorance, but please enlighten me on what "faders to ride" exactly means, and how the volume contols in AA give you a different result than a real channel strip. I have little non-DAW experience. Thanks.

 

[AlexW]

Can you adjust the track levels while the mix is playing back?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Excuse my ignorance, but please enlighten me on what "faders to ride" exactly means, and how the volume contols in AA give you a different result than a real channel strip. I have little non-DAW experience. Thanks.

Can you adjust the track levels while the mix is playing back?

Most physical mixers have a knob at the top of each channel strip labeled "Trim" or "Input", and a "channel fader" control (usually a linear slider control) at the bottom. The "Trim" control acts as an "input volume" control, setting the general volume/voltage level of the signals going into the channel strip. The fader control at the bottom of the strip allows the engineer to make fine, on-the-fly adjustments to the volume, from zero volume (slider down) to the maximum volume as set by the trim control (slider up).* Keeping one's fingers on or near the fader control while recording with the intention of making volume adjustments during the performance is in slang terms sometimes referred to as "riding the faders".

In Cool Edit Pro 2.x/Adobe Audition 1.x (and in fact in the multitrack editing view or screen of most editing software) where you have the individually-recorded tracks laid out horizontally as waveform displays, each track usually has a "Volume" or "Level" setting. This would correspond almost exactly to the "Trim/Input" knob on a channel strip in that it sets the "input", or "playback" volume level for that track.

CEP/Audition, unlike many DAW software packages, does not have a "mixer" screen that looks like a software version of a mixer complete with faders that can be adjusted during recording. With Audition you record directly into the multitrack editor screen described above; if you want a mixer with faders you can ride, you have to use the mixer control supplied with your interface or soundcard. Otherwise, the only level control for each recording track is the "Volume" setting. While one could "ride" a track's volume setting with their mouse, it's really not designed for that purpose and is therefore difficult to use that way ergonomically.

To answer Alex's question and to reenforce my suggestion in an earlier post, yes you can control volume during playback/mixing. This is best done using the "Volume" or "Level" rubberband control, which allows you to adjust the volume of a track along each point of the timeline. The rubber band "Level" control is almost exactly the DAW equivalent of what would be called "fader automation" on a hardware mixer. Dragging the level up and down in the timeline is the same as moving the fader up and down while the track is playing. In effect, such automation is really just a program instructing the computer how to "ride the faders" automatically for you.

Running such level automation on each track was what I was referring to in my previous post when I recommended that "he might need to rubber band the levels on his tracks to get the parts to sit right together through the different passages of the song."

G

*There are small details that make this description slightly inaccurate and incomplete, but this 95% explanation is close enough for the purpose of this thread and for understanding the situation.

 

[bball_1523]

how would I know the levels are right while messing the input volumes of each track?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

how would I know the levels are right while messing the input volumes of each track?

Just record them all so that they are individually peaking on the meters somewhere around -6 to -4 (give or take) on Audition's meters as you're recording. Use the level controls on the Firewire to control thr levels.

Then play with the levels of each individual track in Audition during the mixing to get them mixed to taste. (Hint: The Volume levels can be set both positive and negative.)

G.

 

[flat1ine]

audition DOES have a mixer window - and i use it all the time. the best way i've found to get your levels right is trial and error - select and loop play a section you're having trouble with, and fiddle with the volumes on the left side of each track in multi track view, there's a "V" with a box next to it - if you right click, a slider will appear and you can adjust volume up or down.

 

[mjau]

Are you compressing the lead tracks at all? That might be a huge help.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

audition DOES have a mixer window - and i use it all the time. the best way i've found to get your levels right is trial and error - select and loop play a section you're having trouble with, and fiddle with the volumes on the left side of each track in multi track view, there's a "V" with a box next to it - if you right click, a slider will appear and you can adjust volume up or down.

It sounds like you're talking about the multitrack editor view, which is exactly what I was talking about. Right-clicking is not a mixer window, that's a pop-up track settings window.

The hassle about using the trim volume control is that you can't "ride" them very well. If you had 24 tracks, you'd have to pop up 24 different windows (25, including the main editor window) and switch between them to even try and emulate what you get in a single integrated mixer window in other NLE packages.

You can avoid all the seperate windows by just left-clicking on the volume field and dragging the mouse up or down; you don't even have to pop up the slider.

But it's much easier when recording to control the levels externally than to use the bulky individual level controls in Audition. Ideally it would be best to use output level controls on the preamp or through a mixer. For preamps or I/O devices that don't have hardware level control, they usually come with some kind of mixer software (e.g. MOTU's Cumix Console is what came with my MOTU 2408). Then use the track volumes in Audition to set the maximum trim per track for the mixing stage.

That's what I find the most efficient way to use Audition, anyway. Maybe you're mileage varies. But for those reasons plus the big bugaboo with Audition - that it is not ASIO compatable yet, so I can't use my 2408 with it - that I do most of my multitrack recording into CubaseVST and I save Audition for independant project mixing (for which I happen to quite like Audition, BTW.)

Of course this will probably all change when I upgrade to Nuendo in a couple of weeks...

G.

G.

 

[flat1ine]

Glen-

I was letting bball know that there is a mixer window, but that the way i usually fine tune is just the pop up track settings for smaller projects - when i start mixing or mastering anything more than 4 tracks, i'll bring up the mixer window and tweak around.

i've really grown to love audition, i usually record each track individually from my Yamaha M515 (old school), then tweak a final mix right in audition - i'm only recording myself on any number of instruments, so the setup's fine, but at some point i'd really like to step up to something a little more professional.

cheers,
erik

 

[slvicick]

View -> Show Mixer Window
or Alt + 2

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

View -> Show Mixer Window
or Alt + 2

I stand mostly corrected. I'll go sit in the corner now.

G.

 

[bball_1523]

I stand mostly corrected. I'll go sit in the corner now.

G.

what about this picture below?

mixer

 

[AlexW]

Looks like a mixer window to me.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

what about this picture below?

As I said, I stand corrected. I both thank you for the correction and feel a bit like an idiot. Which is why I'm standing in the corner with a dunce cap on right now.

That'll teach me to use so many different software titles. It's probably because I can't use my 2408 with Audition that I never looked far enough in Audition to see that; I've just been using Cubase and Vegas for that. That combined with the lack of a tool button for bringing up the mixer and I just never found that screen.

My mistake and my apologies.

I'm hoping that when I make the switch to Nuendo, that Cubase, Vegas and Audition will all but disappear from my tool box (though Audition may still be active on my laptop.) Then I'll only have one application to make mistakes with.

G.

 

[bball_1523]

As I said, I stand corrected. I both thank you for the correction and feel a bit like an idiot. Which is why I'm standing in the corner with a dunce cap on right now.

That'll teach me to use so many different software titles. It's probably because I can't use my 2408 with Audition that I never looked far enough in Audition to see that; I've just been using Cubase and Vegas for that. That combined with the lack of a tool button for bringing up the mixer and I just never found that screen.

My mistake and my apologies.

G.

no problem, I also read your previous post the wrong way thinking that you said you were correct beforehand, haha, sorry.