I need help improving my mix

[calltheriot]

Hej Guys,

I've been working on my mix using youtube and the forums but i feel kind of stuck now. I feel like my song is lacking... a lot. I would appreciate tips / videos/ courses that would help me improve. There is so much stuff out there that i don't know where to start.

-drums are done using ezdrummer
-guitars are done using a sm57 and a EVH5150 amp
-bass recorded with a sansamp bddi

 

[mjbphotos]

When the 2nd guitar comes in it has the same sound as the first one and both seem to be panned dead-center - try panning them left and right. Is this MIDI drums? - the reason I ask is that it seems the snare and hi-hat hits are on the same beat (unless that's the snare wire I hear from a bottom mic), not something that a real drummer is going to do. The cymbals are pretty indistinct, except when there is a constant crash hit going, then the crash 'noise' (not the hit) is audible more.

 

[RAMI]

the snare and hi-hat hits are on the same beat (un;ess that's the snare wire I hear from a bottom mic), not something that a real drummer is going to do.

Unless I'm totally mis-understanding what you're saying, a drummer will always hit his snare and hi-hat at the same time when playing a beat.

OP, I agree with MJB's post (except for what I said above). Try panning the guitars and also try giving that second guitar a different sound in some way. It doesn't have to be drastically different, but it would help if it was some how different.

 

[calltheriot]

Hmmm, i did pan the guitars but maybe something is wrong with the way i set it up. This is what i did:

I have 2 (unique) guitar tracks for each part. one panned left and one panned to the right. I send these guitars post fader to a bus. On this bus i apply EQ and Comp and other effects.

for the second guitar, would adding some low and mids be a good idea or would you suggest some sort of plugin/effect to change the tone?

Those are midi drums yes, but i'm not sure what you mean about the snare and hi-hat.

For the cymbals, EZdrummer doesn't have separate outputs for all cymbals, it only has hi-hat and the rest is on the OH and Ambience channel. I want to upgrade to a better software one day but i currently don't have the funds or the skill

 

[DM60]

For the cymbals, EZdrummer doesn't have separate outputs for all cymbals, it only has hi-hat and the rest is on the OH and Ambience channel. I want to upgrade to a better software one day but i currently don't have the funds or the skill

For cymbals, even live recordings use OH. This really isn't a limitation in EZ. I don't think you can get cymbals recorded without bleed. Nature of the beast, best you cab do is work the pan for either.

On the guitars, if you want them to sound wide, maybe the pan just isn't enough. I didn't hear an issue with how they came in, but they were centered sounding. But they cut through just fine.

 

[RAMI]

I have 2 (unique) guitar tracks for each part. one panned left and one panned to the right. I send these guitars post fader to a bus. On this bus i apply EQ and Comp and other effects.

When you say that you have 2 unique tracks, do you mean you played and recorded them twice? Or did you copy and paste? If you copied and pasted, this is why they sound mono, because they are. Hopefully you actually played and recorded the same part twice, because that's the only way to do it really. The only other thing I would suggest making sure of is that the EQ and compressor are stereo effects. I have often called up a mono effect by mistake. This will definitely make your whole buss mono. Make sure they're stereo effects.

for the second guitar, would adding some low and mids be a good idea or would you suggest some sort of plugin/effect to change the tone?

Unfortunately, I can't listen to anything right now, so I can't say. Often, a small change like using a different pick-up, changing mics and/or mic placement is all you need to do to make two parts sound different enough to give some variety.

Those are midi drums yes, but i'm not sure what you mean about the snare and hi-hat.

Don't worry about that.

 

[mjbphotos]

On the guitars - if there are two separately-recorded parts, panned left and right, you may have played them so close-similar that they come off as mono.
On the second guitar part, retrack and change your amp sound (assuming you miked an amp and didn't just DI to a sim).

Unless I'm totally mis-understanding what you're saying, a drummer will always hit his snare and hi-hat at the same time when playing a beat.

Yes, but a typical thing would be hitting the hi-hat on 1-2-3-4 with the snare on 1 and 3. This is every hi-hat hit is also a snare hit (or vice-versa).

Are you using EZDrummer 2? First, get rid of the ambience track - just mute it, or don't run it to a track in your DAW. Use a reverb plug-in on a bus - I've never found the EZD room sound to be very good. In EZ2 you can change your cymbals (assuming you have more than the basic kit), and you can also tune the cymbal (pitch) and adjust your hit strength (and of course you can change the velocity in the MIDI piano roll, too). I haven't found the EZD crashes to be very good for constant hits (like a real drummer would do), only for bell hits or accent crashes.

 

[calltheriot]

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[RAMI]

Yes, but a typical thing would be hitting the hi-hat on 1-2-3-4 with the snare on 1 and 3.

Ok, not worth derailing the thread for. We probably agree, but I'm not sure if we're speaking the same language here. A typical thing would be hi-hat on 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, with the snare on 2 and 4 (not 1 and 3).

This is every hi-hat hit is also a snare hit (or vice-versa).

Right, but isn't that the opposite of what yo said about a drummer not usually doing that? Like I said, i think we agree but I'm just not understanding what you're saying.

Either way, bottom line is that his drum track has nothing abnormal about it. A drummer would play what he has programmed.

 

[calltheriot]

Thanks for the tips on the mono plugins, definitely need to check that.

The guitar parts are recorded twice yes, i did NOT copy them They're even two different guitars. Left is a gibson and right is an ESP.

I don't have the option currently to re-record for the upcoming days but since i already used 2 guitars I think i should look more into my EQ then am i correct?

I appreciate your help guys, thank you very much

as i used 2 guitars but send them to 1 buss with 1 eq. could this be a problem?

 

[DM60]

as i used 2 guitars but send them to 1 buss with 1 eq. could this be a problem?

I would think as long as it doesn't convert them to mono.

I get using a single EQ for balance of a group, but why are you sending them to one EQ (A true question you should ask yourself)? You either EQ for the group or don't send them to a single bus and EQ them as an individual so each sounds like you want them to.

 

[RAMI]

Actually, listening again, I think I hear what MJB was talking about with the snare and hi-hats. It seems the ONLY time you have a hi-hat is with a snare hit, instead of having the high-hat riding all the way through and the snare hits just happening to fall on every 2nd or 4th hat. I'm actually having trouble making out where (or if) there are hi-hats, so we might be totally wrong. But if you only have hats with snare (which I now realize that's what MJB was saying), then that's not what a drummer would usually do.

 

[mjbphotos]

Ok, not worth derailing the thread for. We probably agree, but I'm not sure if we're speaking the same language here. A typical thing would be hi-hat on 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, with the snare on 2 and 4 (not 1 and 3).

Right, but isn't that the opposite of what yo said about a drummer not usually doing that? Like I said, i think we agree but I'm just not understanding what you're saying.

Either way, bottom line is that his drum track has nothing abnormal about it. A drummer would play what he has programmed.

That's why I don't write drum parts from scratch! What I heard was snare + hi-hat on 2 & 4 (or on whatever beats) all the time. There was no 1 & 3 for the hi-hat. then again, I was eating breakfast and drinking my first coffee of the day, too!

Thanks for the tips on the mono plugins, definitely need to check that.

The guitar parts are recorded twice yes, i did NOT copy them They're even two different guitars. Left is a gibson and right is an ESP.

I don't have the option currently to re-record for the upcoming days but since i already used 2 guitars I think i should look more into my EQ then am i correct?

I appreciate your help guys, thank you very much

as i used 2 guitars but send them to 1 buss with 1 eq. could this be a problem?

yes, could be - see what Rami said in post #6, make sure you're sending them into a stereo buss/EQ.

 

[TripleM]

I didn't think it sounded too bad. Good energy.

I thought the drums had an over hyped high end. The cymbals and snare were just a little too sizzly.

I think you could bring the bass up a bit.

The distortion on the guitars sounded pretty good. They lack a little impact. Not enough umph in them.

 

[andrushkiwt]

hmmm, surprised nobody else said this yet... but I was dying to hear some vocals. I had a good melody going in my head, get it up dude! Good energy, as TripleM said.

I do see what others are saying about the panning. If you have them panned L and R, they aren't coming off that way. Yeah maybe it's that they are EQ'd and everything exactly the same. Try using slightly different settings for each. As you play one in one ear, fiddle with the settings of the other ear and adjust to taste. I use an amp sim and select a British cab in one ear and an American cab in the other, for example. Or just try EQ'ing them a little differently.

Everything seemed pushed way back in the mix. Not sure if that's verb or mic placement. If it's mic placement, I got nothing for you...I do everything digitally beside vox.

I get the drum beat you are going for in the "verse", and I also use EZdrummer (Superior drummer actually, but close enough). Try manually changing some of those hi-hat notes or select a groove that occasionally gives a loose feel in the beat instead of constant perfection with each hit. You can also try hitting "humanize" on your drum track in the DAW. This loosens everything up a bit and gives a more human feel...hence the name for the feature.

Finally, from 2:35-2:40, there is a tom that is out of place and loud in the right ear. It just sticks out like a sore thumb.

This is very cool though, and I'd love to hear a polished version with vox. Nice composition and arrangement

 

[RAMI]

see what Rami said in post #6, make sure you're sending them into a stereo buss/EQ.

...and then you should read what I said in post #12. You were probably right all along about the drums. I knew it was just a matter of understanding what you were saying.

 

[calltheriot]

The drum track is actually programmed by the drummer of my band but i'll look into it and see if i can figure something out there

There's actually only hi-hat in the verses, if that clears up anything.

How would i lose some of the sizzle on the drums? And add some umph to the guitars?

I noticed that tom in the solo on my in ears today, weirdly enough i didn't notice them on my speakers. though they are just regular pc speakers


The vocals are missing because we just got a new singer. I do have the original vocals but they are really bad and i didn't want to waste too much time on it since it;s out of pitch a lot. I'll prob record the vocals in one or two weeks.

I'll definitely look into the drums. I'll have to look up that humanize button cause i havent come across it yet.

For the guitars i'm going to eq the tracks instead of just the busses and see how that turns out.

Thank you very much for all the help and the positive feedback!

 

[David O'Donnell]

The first think to check on the guitars is phase. Set one in the center and the other off to the floor tom side of the drums. Try flipping the phase on the side track.Phase cancellation will make the guitars sound dull. Do you set up a Room Bus, or do all the tracks have their own reverb? Send the center guitar straight to the guitar bus, or master and set up a send on the side guitar to the room bus, but still route the track o your guitar bus. This will establish depth, without muddying up the lead. Also an HF exciter can help put some bristle back, in the top end of your tone.

 

[calltheriot]

I took me a while to find some time but here's a new version with some improvements on EQ and such as recommend.

Also, i tried the humanize function but i didn't really like it. It changed my drums at the weirdest places even on the lowest settings.

There is currently only a little reverb on the drums and on the solo, should i place reverb on everything?