I just can´t sing in tune

F

F_cksia

New member
..Well sometimes I accidentily hit the right notes. But then the second take I mess up again. My voice is quite ok, there are no big confidence issues, I play drums, piano and guitars at a pretty good level, no problems with timing, improvising, hearing right or wrong pitch etc. etc. but I JUST CAN´T SING IN TUNE. Sometimes it´s just a half tone sharp or flat, sometimes it´s just waay out of what was I supposed to sing (and have in my head).

It just really annoys me that sometimes I can instantly sing pretty well, for the whole song just catch the right tones, even do second voices etc. And then the next day, same song I might hear some _#)_$'#" coming out of my mouth that has NOTHING to do with what I want. I can practice for ages, but it just doesn´t work out. Anyone else got this problem? It seems like all of you have either a good or bad voice, maybe problems with timing, but singing the right notes is something like a no-brainer. Fuck, even first-class school kids sing in tune without any effort (well, most of them). Every non-musical fckhead sings the right melody. When you ask me to sing a scale, I will probably start out right, but come up with some random string of tones, sometimes 7 instead of 8, before I end up at the higher octave.

I suck.
 
I don't believe that singing the right notes is no-brainer. The more you do it, the better your ear gets, as well as your voice.

I remember seeing a video tape of me when I first started playing guitar. I was 15 or 16 (I'm 35 now). My friend and I were playing "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" (yes, yes, this was 1987 or so). First of all, neither of our acoustics were in tune very well with themselves, and on top of that, they were probably a quarter-step out of tune with each other. Both of us were oblivious to this. And to top it all off, I was "singing" the song, and I don't think I got one note in tune through the whole thing. I was off by like a minor third the whole time or something.

However, fast forward 3 years, and I went to UNT and studied music. Sight singing and ear training were required courses there, and I now know why. The first time I had to sing solfege in my sight singing class, I was scared to hell. It was 8:00 in the morning, and I had to sing a capella in front of a class full of musicians. I'll never forget the comment my teacher made: "Well ... the one thing I can say about that is you were able to get back to 'Do' most of the time ... kinda." lol

Anyway, after four years of those classes and lots of practice since then, I'm much better.

I don't believe you just "can't sing in tune." I just think you need more practice. I don't know how old you are or how long you've been at it, but I know it took me years and years.
 
While some people are blessed with nice sounding voices and some people may be blessed with a good ear - no one becomes accomplished at singing without a lot of work and practice.

Don't get discouraged - it you can sing in key sometimes - you can learn to sing in key all the time. Practise scales using a keyboard or guitar (great for ear training). Learn the 1st, 3rd, 4th & 5th of various chords and practise singing those notes (most harmonies often start with those notes).

Consider taking a few vocal lessons which can be very helpful in learning some proper breathing and posture techniques.

You indicate you can play several instruments well - I suspect that did not happen quickly but rather was the result of hours and hours of practice (and I'm sure you thought you sucked when you first started to learn each instrument).

If you learned that many instuments your clearly have the focus and dedication needed to advance as a musician - apply that same approach to learning to sing!!!!
 
As mentioned above you clearly have ‘musical’ ability and dedication. I would has at a guess that your problem lies with technique and also at the moment you get it right less then getting it wrong, so you are just reinforcing bad habits.

Singing is a complex act and some I believe, because of genes and environment are more predisposed to it then others – as it is with all skills (music, sport, social) while there may be some ‘naturals’ there are also far more who have had to develop technique and often go on to be better than the naturals as they progress, because they actually understand what they are doing.

My first suggestion would be to have a few singing lessons, as mentioned above for posture and breath – breath control (short of psychological or physical blocks – neither of which you sound like you have) is the biggest cause of bum notes in the world.

Another trick is to take a song you do not know well and bash out the main melody on the piano or guitar in single notes – then play it back in short phrases (its not a memory exercise) and try and sing along with your playing, once you’ve got that right then try to sing along with the track.

Sing along with stuff every day; if you can’t do it out loud sing in your head – sing lyrics, sing la, la, sing guitar/piano riffs (do a haiku based on smoke on the water riff), sing ads. Then monitor (or get your newly acquired singing teacher to monitor) what you do when you get it right and what you do when you get it wrong – I spent 2 day upside down at drama school just to feel the weight of my diaphragm – I have never ever forgotten it since.

Note on singing teachers – get someone who knows the style of music you like – if death metal is your bag then Puccini may not connect you with what you need.

HTH
 
sing harmony to a scale you play on you guitar/piano

sing 3rds, 4ths and 5ths of the note you play

i think this is much more productive than singing along. do it sloooow. pay attention to your breath support

this is a lot harder, but sometimes i sing the octave of the note i'm playing and let that drone. then i sing a half step down withe the same drone note. (you'll hera a major 7th)

then i keep going down by half steps. minor7,major6, minor6...etc until you're singing unison withe the drone.

listening to if you're matching pitch enough with overtones really tunes your voice up.
 
Wow guys, these are all fabulous replies. Indeed, I never really thought of singing as a ´skill´, just something you could at least somewhat well do from the day you were born. Just because almost every fucker on American Idol, has all kinds of issues but at least got most of the pitch right. Trying to imitate this, I might indeed forget the ´first think, then sound´- thing, just trying to burst out a sound and hope it will land on the right pitch is just not the way to go.

So there I go: practice, practice, practice. Exactly next year I will post a song in the MP3 clinic, beware! ;)
 
"first think, then sound" is probably the best advice i've ever heard. just blurting out a note and hoping it sounds right is a fairly common mistake, i think. then again, i remember there was a band from my hometown and the singer was what most people would call terrible. he was constantly flat, his voice was always cracking, but he sang with such conviction that i always found it quite charming. i believe that singing is about what you're trying to convey and not perfect pitch. just my personal preference, though ;)
 
F_cksia said:
It just really annoys me that sometimes I can instantly sing pretty well,
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I'm guessing you start thinking too much, being a instrument player your probably not keeping the vocal as #1, numero uno, the big cheese...the money track....

so you start trying too much, on the following takes, to sing to the instrument instead of keeping the vocal # 1. the brain gets defocused maybe.

I've heard people sing fine with a audio recording, and alone they can't...so thats strange, because they already sang along in tune which proves they can....so theirs some kind of mental thing going on, I suspect.
 
Well, if you are off that consistently you might be a little pitch-challenged. It may never come as naturally to you as it does to some people. However, I agree it's something that can be improved with training and practice. With enough of that, almost anyone can stay in pitch like a professional, such as Britney Spears. ;)


An opera singer I know once told me that most people who can hear the pitch clearly but still sing off-key are positioning their tongues incorrectly. I kid you not. Try keeping your tongue relaxed and sitting on the floor of your mouth (keep your throat and jaw relaxed too). This could give you an immediate improvement and feeling of greater control.
 
When I find myself tracking out of tune, my first step is to turn everything DOWN. Sometimes thining out the headphone mix, down to one rhythm guitar, can help. It seems easier to focus when I have less distractions. Also, making sure that all the vowel sounds are the way I want them is helpful. Anything that can pull your focus has to be eliminated when tracking vocals.

chazba
 
F_cksia, I have the exact same gripe with my vocals. I've just come to terms with the way I sound and have decided to "accept it" and just belt it out any chance I get, regardless of who's watching or listening. I figure, there are famous people getting filthy rich using horrible voices so it's not so bad that I suck.

I cheat though. I will record my vocal tracks five or six times then create a phrase by phrase composite from all the tracks of the best performances from each track. I just have to make sure that I do all the tracks in the same session because I'm not very consistent and sometimes my timbre sounds a little different depending on what day it is for whatever reason.

I don't think my pitch and my ear is *that* bad though: I sometimes select different notes to sing on different takes without realizing until later that I've accidentally created some cool harmonies.

But yeah, singing in key is a bitch. I wish I had started trying to sing years ago, maybe I'd be a lot better now. Oh well, hopefully one day I'll look back and laugh at how I used to suck. Or, at least care less that I still do. ;)

chazba said:
When I find myself tracking out of tune, my first step is to turn everything DOWN. Sometimes thining out the headphone mix, down to one rhythm guitar, can help. It seems easier to focus when I have less distractions. Also, making sure that all the vowel sounds are the way I want them is helpful. Anything that can pull your focus has to be eliminated when tracking vocals.

chazba
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I stumbled upon this just last night. I finally realized that the tracks were too loud in my headphones and I couldn't actually hear myself. After turning down and completely exposing one ear I was actually able to do a single take on a track with no "composite" cheating!

Btw, how many others here do the composite stuff? Just curious.
 
COOLCAT said:
I've heard people sing fine with a audio recording, and alone they can't...so thats strange, because they already sang along in tune which proves they can....so theirs some kind of mental thing going on, I suspect.
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I do that ALL the time. Slowly working away from that . . .
 
sing

You can try singing the 3rds or 5ths of a chord as practice. Pay attention to how your voice sounds while its holding the note. Can you hit it while singing softly? If you can then try to see how much more force you can add before it starts to become different sounding or you lose the hold on the pitch.

You may also want to ask yourself if you are singing purely without influence of the type of voice you want to have, versus the type of voice you actually have. Because everyone is different, and finding what your particular voice can do well and what it cant is a big part of singing and songwriting. But it can be hard to deal with the realizations that you may never sound exactly how you thought you would. But there is no shame in that, just find what you can do well with your voice and cultivate that.

When practicing make sure you are hearing yourself over headphones with an instrument that is sufficient volume as reference. Any little distraction in how you hear the instrument and your voice can cause hesitation that will show up in the voice on playback.

And lastly, remember to try transposing for your voice. And keep in mind that sometimes raising the pitch of a song is better than lowering it. Most times when the key goes up the voice can then sing at the lower octave with more ease. But all this is for you to figure out and listen close for. Good luck with it.
 
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fatstrat said:
Btw, how many others here do the composite stuff? Just curious.
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yeah i often times will record 5 or six vocal takes and then mix them up with double, triple or what have you tracking, it's fun to do it that way and much less discouraging than doing 50,000 takes of a vocal track! :)
 
I may be talking out of place here, but try relaxing completely and mentally 'knowing' what note you are going for being you hit it. I think that singing may have a lot to do with your state of mind and personality - perhaps the more you try to force the right notes and get stressed out about it, the worse the results.
 
Hi,

Just a humble amateur here, but I love singing.

I have learned two things amongst the info I have tried to use when it comes to singing (not new, but good to repeat):

Air and breathing is everything in singing.

The less effort you have to make to produce a note, the more correctly you are singing. If you are straining, you won't sound good and your vocal cords will hurt.

When I made 'the shift' to actually breathe correctly from the midriff as opposed to slamming the notes out by using my throat muscles, not only did my range increase, but now others no longer leave the room when I start up :D

Oh, and my throat doesn't burn from singing anymore either; I'll never be a pro, but what a difference just from those simple rules.

Best,
C.
 
personally im a very limited range vocalist ...anything outside of my comfort zone and it all goes to pot ...so i tend to bring the music to my zone ..wether it involves a capo or whatever ...but u need to know your limitations and you need to bring the key of the music to you.
 
As somebody who has trained vocally, I'll give you a few tips.

Buy a KRATT "Master Key" pitch pipe in the key of C. It will cost you around $15.

Hum into it, until you get to the point where you can vibrate each note in key, then keep going up in pitch.

Angle your head back about 5 to 10 degrees while you do this.

This will train your vocal chords to hit these notes.

Also, you can make recordings of pitches/scales and read a book out loud and read it on pitch. I know it sounds crazy, but these will help.

When you want to sing in your breaking range - sing "nay" like a brat - i.e., in a bratty sneering kind of voice - this helps train your chords to zip up properly. The vocal chords act like a zipper and when they are stretched to their maximum, they then sort of start zipping up and if trained enough, you can literally add OCTAVES to your voice - it's all a matter of training.
Most people would just like to be able to sing in their own voice, which doesn't take long at all....it's just a matter of proper technique and being diligent about practicing.


Tim
 
Great thread here guys.

I'm vocally challenged myself. But - I LOVE to sing. My wife cracks up at me all the time.

Here's my advice to you fellow struggling singers: just go with it - work for progress rather than perfection.

Paul Westerberg is my favorite vocalist. Jeff Tweedy is second. Tweedy's got a pretty great range, but neither singer is what you'd call a model of technical perfection. It's moving to hear a singer working with his or her limitations (as long as they're really trying to convey an honest emotion, vs. using limitation as a gimmick).
 
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