I hate drums

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zepsun

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I hate drums (please help)

I can't seem to settle on a good hard rock drum sound. I mix using Sennheiser HD 280 pro headphones. I don't really have monitors at home. I'm a guitar player, and I'm happy with the sounds I get, but when it comes to drums (I don't know drummers, so I have to learn and do them myself), I can't seem to create a sound that works for me. I get a drum sound I think it pretty good, then I start with a new project (same style, guitars and amps) and the drums sound totally different to me again. I would like to get a basic mixing setup that works, and only needs minor tweaks. The drums are definitely holding me back and I can't seem to progress until I get everything sounding good.

I would like opinions on this from people who can play them over some monitors, and do a quick mixing test to see if it sounds ok, and offer some advice.

thanks.

EDIT:
I added another mp3 of the drums isolated.
 

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So what do you use for drums? In Superior Drummer I can adjust levels and pan (stereo position) which has resulted in some good sounding drums. Do you have separate gain control for the kick, snare, toms, overhead, etc?

Listening to the isolated drums, the kick is real thick and the snare is washed in reverb. I'd add some punch (gain at say 80-120hz) on the kick and remove some of the reverb from the snare so it has some snap to it. This will help the drums punch through when you blend the kit with the other instruments. If you've applied reverb to the entire kit (can't really tell) I would back off on it and see if the kick and snare become a little more defined.
 
Hey Pinky - thanks for responding.
I do use Superior Drummer. I have updated my signature to show what I use.
I stopped using Multi-out about 2 weeks ago, because I found a stereo preset that was extremely close to what I wanted, with some minor tweaks . When I change it to multi-out, it sounds totally different, so I've been tweaking as a stereo channel. I am using parallel compression on the whole kit, and a subkick to give the kick bottom end. Big fan of the kick in 'One Way Ticket" by the Darkness.


I have a new sample here. I removed the reverb (relying on OH and AMB channels now), and made the eq change to the kick. Let me know what you think.

Thanks.
 

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I like the updated sound. You'll probably want to massage it further once you use it on a song. There was a time I would start my drums from scratch for every track, but ended up falling on a couple presets for a couple styles that seem to work fine. Then I can usually EQ and compress the drum mixdown to achieve any specific results I need for the song.

Remember that you can EQ and add reverb while mixing to bring out elements in the drums that might help support the music. On slow dirgey hard rock songs I tend to add thick, long delay/sustain reverb on the drums to give them a boomy presence. That same concept applied to a pop track would sound like shit.
 
the kick needs some high end. or take out some mid and boost low. it's a little muffled. the snare needs some mids . not much, but it is a little distant. the mix seems a bit left pan heavy too. maybe that's just me? the crash on the left is a little too distinct. are the overheads hard panned?
 
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cello_pudding said:
the kick needs some high end. or take out some mid and boost low. it's a little muffled. the snare needs some mids . not much, but it is a little distant. the mix seems a bit left pan heavy too. maybe that's just me? the crash on the left is a little too distinct. are the overheads hard panned?
Click to expand...

I second that. Add a little top end to the kick and cut a little low-mid mud.
 
zepsun said:
I stopped using Multi-out about 2 weeks ago, because I found a stereo preset that was extremely close to what I wanted, with some minor tweaks . When I change it to multi-out, it sounds totally different, so I've been tweaking as a stereo channel. I am using parallel compression on the whole kit, and a subkick to give the kick bottom end.
Click to expand...

Which SD drum kit(s), expansion packs are you using?
Maybe you need to try some of the other ones they have....find the right kit that's got most of what you are after....and then just tweak it a bit.

Your MP3 samples sound awful dead/flat, like you muffled the skins....maybe it's your use of compression.
Also, if you want to tweak the drums and have the best sounding kits....you have to go multi.
Stereo is OK for getting basic stuff set up and dropping drum tracks in a hurry...but the mix of the multi-channel kit will give you much more room for improvement.
I use SD/EZ kits and have a few expansions packs, and your drums don't sound like anything I've heard in those packs, so I'm wondering if you're not trying too hard to improve on something that's probably pretty good right out of th box...and maybe overdoing it, because again, your MP3 samples sound pretty muted/muffled...and I still think it's the compression....there's no crisp attack on anything.
 
Thanks Miroslav.
I tried a few more things with your feedback. I added a transient to the snare - only thing about doing this, is it seems to filter out ghost notes on the snare (takes away from ruffs and rolls). The new sample also has the reverb seriously dialed down.

I used multi-out a lot, and I couldn't get a satisfying sound. I started using a Chris Henderson preset from Custom & Vintage with some tweaking and liked it better right away. Do you have any preset files you could send me? I got custom vintage because of the Zildjian cymbals mostly. I only have NY Avatar and C&V.

Thanks.
 

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this may not help as I am a drummer that plays real drums. I also was on the road as a FOH engineer for years. if you want fat kick with good attack EQ a lot of low end around 80 k, little less low mid around 150 k, and a good bit of high end around 3 to 4 k. also use a gate and compress at around 5 to 6:1
 
zepsun said:
Do you have any preset files you could send me? I got custom vintage because of the Zildjian cymbals mostly. I only have NY Avatar and C&V.
Click to expand...

I don't really use any canned presets...I just pick a "base" kit that I like, and then I'll adjust it to taste for whatever the song calls for.
I don't have the Custom Vintage....I've got the stock SD kits, plus the NY Vol2, and several EZ kits, Latin, Nashville, Americana, Pop, and Classic....I think that's it.
So how are the Zildjian cymbals in the CV pack?
I kinda wish they had more Zildjian cymbals in the other packs....but they tend to use a lot of Paiste cymbals.

My studio drum kit has all Zildjian cymbals...and I wen through a couple of dozen cymbals until I picked out a handful that I really like. Some Dark Ks and some thinner dry cymbals, which sound great for recording. Many of the EZ/SD packs have a lot of loud/brash sounding cymbals, so I'll have to check out the CV pack....maybe I can find some there that I like.
 
Hi guys.
I appreciate the input you gave me on my drum sound. I have done some more tweaking, I've gone back to using Multi-out. I've attached two new files. An isolated drum track, and a complete mix. Would love more input on the drums, and the mix too if you feel like it.


Thanks.
 

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Isolated I wasn't sure what to think, but in the mix I thought they fit really well. The pan is wide and you might want to pull things a slight bit more center (the overhead mics usually create this effect when they capture the cymbals), otherwise I think for that song at least the drums work. :)
 
I'm with pinky on this. I think they sound fine in the context of the song. :thumbs up:
 
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