I feel like I'm actually learning something...

peritus

peritus

The not fountain head
Hey guys...

Please listen to the track on my Soundclick called "You Know", and tell me what you think...

I think I'm on to a couple techniques with mixing and mastering that used to just be words on a page... I think it's starting to click for me.. lol

It supposed to be a hard hitting instrumental.. Maybe for hip hop...

Thanks! :)
 
Sounds pretty good! Two things: maybe the vinyl crackles are a bit cliché (or maybe I don't know this genre well enough?) and the drums sound a bit dry for the rest of the mix.

But, yeah, I'd say you're right--you're learning some stuff!
 
WhiteStrat said:
Sounds pretty good! Two things: maybe the vinyl crackles are a bit cliché (or maybe I don't know this genre well enough?) and the drums sound a bit dry for the rest of the mix.

But, yeah, I'd say you're right--you're learning some stuff!
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the crackles.. I've lost my digidesign keyfob in my moving to my new house, so I'm having trouble removing them without my beloved RTAS plugins.. In any case, the clicks are really from the vinyl I sampled from.. lol

I think you're right about the dry drums too.. My mixing room is a little bright, so that would make sense...

I need to burn a cd and try these new song in my car...

Thanks, man!
 
There's no low frequency pump.

Listen to a movie trailer on You Tube. You're gonna hear rumble. Same with any hiphopper. It's hard to get there without gumming up the sound...but that's what experienced engineers can do. I don't know how to get it to the point they can. Just level up the bottom instruments [bass/bassdrum/synths], and try stuff to make it sound clean and full way down there.

The composition sounds incomplete...no melody...the droning and repetitive texture devices get old quick. Needs some stuff to keep it interesting for more than 15 seconds. I don't think it qualifies as 'hard-hitting' or an 'instrumental' yet. It's a 'beat' with texture. It might be used for a voice-over bumper w/o the synth and toy piano and some more sound in the bottom. Other than that, not a very useful piece of work. But the sounds, individually, seem to be OK. Could't get past the fundamental weaknesses to concentrate on that. Don't want to listen again. The thing is, even with weak individual sound quality in the tracks, an interesting work can overcome that deficiency. Every day someone posts some really nice music here that has technical problems, but shines as an interesting idea.

Ideas are the larger half of what creating things is about: you have adequate skills as a recordist; but there is a lack of an idea to record, I think....like a guy with all the new and sharp cabinet-making tools...who can't imagine a nice peice of furniture and plan it out. Home recording of product on your own requires both tool-skills and ideas to apply them to, unless you only want to be an engineer.

I'd suggest you start listening for music playing in your head, and try to learn to capture it. Some ideas with direction, interest, poetry, meaning, emotion , etc. Everybody has them; not everyone can learn to tune-in. The way to tune-in is to believe that there is music playing to your thoughts, and keep reminding yourself to listen for it. Give it a week or two to work. Faith in the gift.

ps...I listened to 'Old Age'. That's the critique. Went back and listened to the second selection. A little more bottom...a little more interesting. Crackles only work when the rest of the work sounds like it is on an old crackly 1938 record.
 
Jeff,

I appreciate your time, and yes, your honesty. Your tact leaves a tiny bit to be desired, but I trust that it's just the honesty coming out.

In any case, I agree with you on many of your points, though in some cases, to a lesser degree than you might like.

I'm unable to give a full reply at the moment, as I'm due at work in just a few minutes.

My main question is if you are a fan of hip hop, as opposed to pop hop. Reason being, a lot of "hip hop", as it were, has little or no melody, and some even lack a bassline. In many cases the vocalist, rapper or otherwise, is charged with that task. The example I submit to you is a classic, by popular standards: "One Milc" by Nas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9jau9BLAb4

Thanks, and keep the honesty coming, if it's not too painfully laborious for you.

By the way, I listened to a little of your stuff.. The music on that first track is spot on, but the vocals leave some to be desired. Also, I feel that there are a couple frequency cuts that could be made to get them to mesh with the mix a bit better.
 
Which Instruments, and what cuts? I need help, too.

I listened to 'One Mic'. The low frequencies are there. When the bass comes in, there's foundation. The piano and strings and church bells all have simple mini-themes. The kkeys, at one point , develop an 8 bar [?] melodic theme. At another point there was a synth part that also played in those bottom freqs...a bit of that rumble...which I think is real important: low freqs touch a special place in humans,,,make you feel something important...bass drives emotion, I think.

But, yeah, without the rap, it would be a lot less interesting; but, there's enough bottom and theme and invention to keep me listening...like, if it were playing as a floor to some other thing, it would be catching me inside, down deep, and apart from my focused attention. One device is the two note bass part....it pleases my brain...and I anticipate it coming back in...very effective. The sounds are creamy, the drum part has groove covered, and there are identifiable parts that sweep up and down dynamically...like waves.

On your cut, there are no frequencies playing in the emo-zone. The fuzzy synth part lasts too long, and draws attention to itself...becomes a fly on the lense of your camera. I don't remember being caught anticipating any recurring themes...like the two note bass part. The drum groove is sparse...it doesn't 'hop'. It needs a little something added to the mesh to make the repeating figure 'jump'. An upbeat of triplet feel somewhere in the measure to nick some attention.

And that's where imagination...and learning to listen to it..plays the important role: you wake up in the morning out of a dream hearing a drum groove that's special enough to make your brain play it over and over in a loop. That quality affects other people who hear it. The art of the composer is to devise a way of remembering that little gift, and making it real....then sharing it.

In 'One Mic".......the little 6-note repeating theme on the piano, the two note bass figure, the groove, the lyric, "One mic"...they're still playing in my head ten minutes later...like an infection. And I'll remember it tomarrow. All I remember about your comp is the fly....and how the drum groove didn't reach me.

Now, I only listened to that one tune of your. Granted. I'll check out more.

My perception is that you focused a lot on the recorded sound, but just threw up this or that contrivance to work on. Individually, and together, the parts don't affect me. The important aspect you seemed to have left out was the undefinable attraction of musical parts designed by the superior composer inside of you...and how those parts interact to produce an affect on my soul.

An extreme example of what I'm talking about, you can hear in the music of Ne Yo. Simple stuff. But it reaches into people's guts. He didn't win five grammies for the quality of his recorded sound, or deft use of counterpoint: his music is the product of his imagination...and has that infectious human-to-human tweak thing happening. You hear him, or that guy who produced "One Mic", and you just know you're hearing what plays in their heads. Good music possesses the mind, in a small way, of the listener. One human recognizes the thought-music of another.

There's no book to tell you how to get that. You just need to find that inner jukebox, and obey it. If you can hear what your own head refuses to let go of, there's your source of worthy stuff to EQ on a track!

I wasn't trying to be harsh. You record well. You need something special to record. Reach down, and inside...listen. What you hear at that place is the right stuff.

It was about 4:00am...I left tact for brevity's sake. :^) My desire is that you, and anyone who commits sound to a platform, have something special to present. I'm not a mean guy. And I'm no composing genius. But I do know that, without tuning into my imagination and its soundtrack, I'd have absolutely nothing to offer others at all. I hear stuff, and make it happen, as best I can.

God provided the soundtrack in your head, to accompany your thoughts. As unique to you as your face. All that stuff is there..already written..and meaningful, impactful to others, by design. Worthy of sharing with the world. It isn't always complicated....but it's good enough to win a grammy.

Now, I might be wrong in my perception of where your composition comes from....but if this can be useful to you...or anyone else, all good. The things I write about are not my invention: the concept was exposed to me by others..and proven to myself when I heard the music playing in my own head; when, on faith, I believed it was there. It was like the day Kennedy was shot...I know where I was, what I was doing..the moment is locked in my memory. I've worn a path to the jukebox, and tunes just pour out. I don't write them....except for most, but not all the lyric.

I'm passing the concept on to you, because I want you to succeed. It's luv, brotha.
 
peritus said:
Jeff,

I appreciate your time, and yes, your honesty. Your tact leaves a tiny bit to be desired, but I trust that it's just the honesty coming out.

In any case, I agree with you on many of your points, though in some cases, to a lesser degree than you might like.
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Tact? Do you want honest opinions or not?

Sure, we all like to see rave reviews of our own work. But the day people start sugar-coating things for the sake of "tact" is the day this forum loses its usefulness.

For what it's worth, for as long as I've been around here (not very long by the way), Jeff has been one of the primary contributors in the clinic. And when I say "contributor" I mean it in the sense that he actually tends to elaborate on his position, rather than just say "Cool stuff man!". This is a good thing.
 
Went and listened to everything on the linked page. There are a couple tunes where there is bass freq happening...one.

It says that you're making what you hear in you head...so disregard my bloviations, I reckon.

There is one other nit, though: assuming that you hear this stuff in your head, you need to develop a sense of taste, I think. Like that female voice thing..in "Rain" IIRC. That tune really grabbed me right off...but the theme with the voice outlasted its pleasure-inducement phase, and smothered the groove throughout. To much of a good thing. I guess restraint in devices is a good thing. You can't miss a pleasing device if it's always there...and that also resembles the over-use of the 'fly on the lense' in the tune I listened to, and critiqued.

You're onto something, and do a good job with it; maybe just focus on other aspects, like leaving the listener wanting more of things, rather than pushing things until they reach the point of ineffectiveness and annoyance..like the female synth voice. Develop larger textures and dynamic flow throughout the tune.....the work, generally, tends to get boring too quickly.

And I also noticed you define work like that as 'trip-hop' electronica. The electronica tends to be somewhat harsh...sound choices. But it's a new thing to my ears. I've rarely, if ever, heard square-wave synths in the root style. And those sounds tend to get irritating quicker than most...like sandpaper.

Keep on.

I reckon one of the objects of creating headmuzic is to please others too. Music tends to arrive at conventions, because humans like certain things. It's like natural selection: music that tends to please gets heard. And the two things that will help you are use of low frequencies...make sure they're represented...and restraint on the interest-inducing devices you use. Let the groove breathe....make a landscape that changes...like the listener is taking a walk.
 
jeffmaher said:
Went and listened to everything on the linked page. There are a couple tunes where there is bass freq happening...one.

It says that you're making what you hear in you head...so disregard my bloviations, I reckon.

There is one other nit, though: assuming that you hear this stuff in your head, you need to develop a sense of taste, I think. Like that female voice thing..in "Rain" IIRC. That tune really grabbed me right off...but the theme with the voice outlasted its pleasure-inducement phase, and smothered the groove throughout. To much of a good thing. I guess restraint in devices is a good thing. You can't miss a pleasing device if it's always there...and that also resembles the over-use of the 'fly on the lense' in the tune I listened to, and critiqued.

You're onto something, and do a good job with it; maybe just focus on other aspects, like leaving the listener wanting more of things, rather than pushing things until they reach the point of ineffectiveness and annoyance..like the female synth voice. Develop larger textures and dynamic flow throughout the tune.....the work, generally, tends to get boring too quickly.

And I also noticed you define work like that as 'trip-hop' electronica. The electronica tends to be somewhat harsh...sound choices. But it's a new thing to my ears. I've rarely, if ever, heard square-wave synths in the root style. And those sounds tend to get irritating quicker than most...like sandpaper.

Keep on.

I reckon one of the objects of creating headmuzic is to please others too. Music tends to arrive at conventions, because humans like certain things. It's like natural selection: music that tends to please gets heard. And the two things that will help you are use of low frequencies...make sure they're represented...and restraint on the interest-inducing devices you use. Let the groove breathe....make a landscape that changes...like the listener is taking a walk.
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Jeez, all this and my ass kicking was private? :) :) :) :)
 
Jeez, all this and my ass kicking was private?

I wasn't feeling so sure of my opinion... I don't have Huttinger playing on my tawdry tunes, either. For all I knew, that was Herbie Hancock playing that one thing that didn't work [imho] on an otherwise amazing peice of music.

Next time, I shall wave my private parts at your submissions where all can see.

From now on, though, everything is 'nice!!!' :):):):):):):):):):):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D:o:o:o:o
 
Peritus, I went back and listened again to a few of your songs. And this time I was listening on my monitors...and the recordings sounded much fuller in the bottom. Great sounds. And the composition plays much better with the full frequency range represented. And you are doing a lot with texture and dynamics that escaped my ears previously. My monitoring space overblows all the bass freqs...except for my special listening-post...and it sounds real good in here playing your stuff.

I tried listening again with the phones.....just not pushing.

I apologize. Must have just caught me in a foul listening mood.
 
jeffmaher said:
Peritus, I went back and listened again to a few of your songs. And this time I was listening on my monitors...and the recordings sounded much fuller in the bottom. Great sounds. And the composition plays much better with the full frequency range represented. And you are doing a lot with texture and dynamics that escaped my ears previously. My monitoring space overblows all the bass freqs...except for my special listening-post...and it sounds real good in here playing your stuff.

I tried listening again with the phones.....just not pushing.

I apologize. Must have just caught me in a foul listening mood.
Click to expand...

So you listened and ripped his shit up knowing that you weren't in the most objective listening space? That's pretty unfair.
 
jeffmaher said:
Peritus, I went back and listened again to a few of your songs. And this time I was listening on my monitors...and the recordings sounded much fuller in the bottom. Great sounds. And the composition plays much better with the full frequency range represented. And you are doing a lot with texture and dynamics that escaped my ears previously. My monitoring space overblows all the bass freqs...except for my special listening-post...and it sounds real good in here playing your stuff.

I tried listening again with the phones.....just not pushing.

I apologize. Must have just caught me in a foul listening mood.
Click to expand...

What kind of headphones? Sony's, per chance?
 
jeffmaher said:
AudioTechnica M-50
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The reason I ask is that my pair of Sony MDR-7506's are notably bass-shy and treble-happy. Since I haven't yet acquired a sub woofer, my Event ASP8's probably aren't telling me the whole story, so to speak. In addition, my room doesn't have any bass trapping, which I believe might also contribute. What's more, only the top four tracks on my page were made during this year (in fact, those four were made during the last week). The rest of my tracks were created 2+ years ago, in a different time, place, and state of mind. I'm ramping up to a new level in my ambition. I will be working towards obtaining a physical piano, now that I'm in my new home, and I'll be hiring a teacher. Perhaps, then I might be able to knock out the tunes you want to hear.

I fancy myself technical, yes. I've assisted in the studio with a Grammy award-winning mixing engineer, at his request. I'm not kidding myself on the musical talent aspect. What I make is not orthodox. So, it's all good if the composition is not all that. I'm laid back. I follow my bliss, and I track that riff that other people throw away. I know how talent works; sometimes it's just accidental. I've previously put mixing before composition. You have reversed that about me. Thank you. I will continue my unorthodoxy, though.

If I'm having trouble with my mixing, I welcome the help, as this is the "MP3 Mixing Clinic". Comments about my composition are encouraged as well, but I, as an artist of my own christening, reserve the right to stand by my style -- boring, repetitive, shy-of-low-frequency-instrumentation, or otherwise. Hip Hop is a culture, not a music. Furthermore, I want to shake off "genre", as it is a shroud for most musicians.

Early in my composition/mixing journey (look at my join date, and subtract some years), my mixes were so bass heavy that I trembled at the thought of taking them to the car. Now my mixes are too bright in places, and weak in some of the low frequencies. I'm learning, which is why I started this thread, hence the title. It's also not as if I track and mix my own personal muses at Electric Lady Land or Abbey Road.

My preference, however, is to rack up friends, skills, mentors, peers, and apprentices... If you look at my track record here, you will see that. I really appreciate your apology, and it means a lot coming from someone so communicative, and I'd love to do all I can to be a good peer to you. Unfortunately, though, I feel burned by your posts, and I'm having trouble reconciling your previous opinion to that of late. Therefore, you are a peer to me, not a mentor.

To be frank, I feel that you have been somewhat of a compositional snob. Were I following in the footsteps of your genre, or you following mine, perhaps we might see more eye to eye, and then you can hear what you want to hear.

Your objectivity is priceless, and there are snobs all kinds. I want to be galvanized here, rather than elsewhere. So, please just say what you want and get it out. Just don't expect me to listen.

Thank you all for your time... It's always real, even on the Internet.
 
jeffmaher said:
Jeez, all this and my ass kicking was private?

I wasn't feeling so sure of my opinion... I don't have Huttinger playing on my tawdry tunes, either. For all I knew, that was Herbie Hancock playing that one thing that didn't work [imho] on an otherwise amazing peice of music.

Next time, I shall wave my private parts at your submissions where all can see.

From now on, though, everything is 'nice!!!' :):):):):):):):):):):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D:o:o:o:o
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Poo on that. Truth ROCKS. On the strength of your comments, I had the line retracked by a serious horn/wind player. It was worth every penny, because you were so right. That's why I totally re-tracked the other Huttlinger piece (see new thread) because it had even more issues than Abby did, I wasn't doing him justice. Anyway, apologies for threadjacking, you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.
 
Llarion said:
Poo on that. Truth ROCKS. On the strength of your comments, I had the line retracked by a serious horn/wind player. It was worth every penny, because you were so right. That's why I totally re-tracked the other Huttlinger piece (see new thread) because it had even more issues than Abby did, I wasn't doing him justice. Anyway, apologies for threadjacking, you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.
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Stop by anytime.. Your cosigning is valuable info...
 
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