I feel embarrassed to ask this, I have been recording music for 3 years now

R

RMBRecords

New member
Hi there

I have been recording music for 3 years and now recording through an Apollo 8 using various microphones no problems at all.

My problem has come along using a H4N and video mic pro to record a piano. If I use the pre amps in the h4n not much of a problem, I can work with that audio.

The problem arises when I set the video mic pro (supercardiod, 8inches away top of piano) to plus 20db and reduce gain on h4n. The audio never passes -6db but when piano part gets really busy it constantly stays at -6db and the recording is unusuable. The picture below shows the unuasable waveform.

I have learnt so much more complicated things when it comes to recording, yet this simple matter can't work out why.

Can someone please shed some light please?

Thank you

Roberto
 

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Why are you recording so hot? You should be able to record in the -18 to -12 dB range and capture the dynamics of the piano.
 
I always record around -12db.

The reason is because came across this by chance.

When I put H4N to record at around -6db using the internal pre-amps sound it absolutely fine but then turned on the 20 plus on mic to bypass H4n to see sound just experimenting and noticed that it was doing this at -6db gain structure. No limiter on, it's more I just wanting to know why it's doing this because when I plug this mic straight into GH4 I always use 20 plus switch to bypass hissy GH4 pre amps.

I don't really record music this way and can get it to work but just wanted to know why this happening.

I'm away for Christmas from my home studio so had to travel light and recording a pianist.

Thank you for replying.
 
Just speculating, but with maybe just a whisker of experience here:

The H4N is expecting a mic level signal. You're giving it a line level signal. Take that 20dB boost off first and see if that fixes things.
 
If the signal is only getting to -6 and flatlining, you are distorting the mic.

The 20 dB boost on the mic is there to record quiet sounds, not to take the place of a mic preamp.

Take off the boost and turn up the mic preamp and everything will be fine.
 
Farview said:
If the signal is only getting to -6 and flatlining, you are distorting the mic.

The 20 dB boost on the mic is there to record quiet sounds, not to take the place of a mic preamp.

Take off the boost and turn up the mic preamp and everything will be fine.
Click to expand...

Yes with the 20db switch off it works just fine.

My problem was I wanted to bypass the H4n pre amps to see what it sounded like, so need to put 20db switch and which would allow me to set gain low on H4n.

The picture below shows that I use a converter to make it jack to XLR connection. I don't understand how putting the db switch to 20db would make it a line input, should be mic input?
 
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Farview said:
If the signal is only getting to -6 and flatlining, you are distorting the mic.

The 20 dB boost on the mic is there to record quiet sounds, not to take the place of a mic preamp.

Take off the boost and turn up the mic preamp and everything will be fine.
Click to expand...

when I use just normal jack connection to my Panasonic GH4 I put the boost on and set GH4 gain low so I can get rid of the hissy pre amps of the GH4. This works absolutely fine but haven't tried near a loud source, usually some distance. I have thought this helps me bypass the GH4 pre amps, it does get rid of hiss and quality so much better. I was just experimenting with H4N and this happened even though no clipping, that's why I am confused, also there is no limiter.
 
If you're plugging into the XLR, then you won't be able to use the line level voltage. Maybe it will work how you want if you use a 1/4" plug. However, I'm willing to bet no matter how you connect and at whatever voltage level, you'll still be using the H4N's pre amps. In those types of interfaces, the XLR and 1/4" inputs use the same pre amps, just a matter of putting resistors in the line level side to lower the voltage. You're not bypassing anything.

Whatever picture you're referring to isn't posted.
 
What im saying is, with the 20 dB boost, you are clipping the internal circuitry of the mic. The mic can not handle being close to the piano with the boost on.

It doesn't matter what you plug the mic into, the distorted/clipped signal is coming out of the mic.
 
Chili said:
If you're plugging into the XLR, then you won't be able to use the line level voltage. Maybe it will work how you want if you use a 1/4" plug. However, I'm willing to bet no matter how you connect and at whatever voltage level, you'll still be using the H4N's pre amps. In those types of interfaces, the XLR and 1/4" inputs use the same pre amps, just a matter of putting resistors in the line level side to lower the voltage. You're not bypassing anything.

Whatever picture you're referring to isn't posted.
Click to expand...

Sorry didn't upload was just showing how I connected.

Thanks for this info. With the GH4 it works how I mentioned with the boost with no distortion. It's just with the H4N but can work around that by setting the H4N to even lower gain or only use it when source is really quiet. To be honest there is no need at all for me to put boost on for piano but when it happened I just wanted to know why.

It's definitely the internal circuit of mic clipping although not showing on H4N.
 
There is no way for the h2n to know that the mic is clipping. If it could register clipping of things other than its own inputs, it would show clipping when you recorded a distorted guitar with it....

It only knows that it's converters are being clipped when it has a number of full scale samples in a row. So if the signal never reaches 0dbfs, it won't register clipping.
 
Farview said:
What im saying is, with the 20 dB boost, you are clipping the internal circuitry of the mic. The mic can not handle being close to the piano with the boost on.

It doesn't matter what you plug the mic into, the distorted/clipped signal is coming out of the mic.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I understand now.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Roberto
 
Based on what you've described, I think a lot of the responses here are accurate, but based on the image you posted, it looks to me like there's some sort of signal being sent with the piano signal, like a strong buzz or something, that's causing the "block" waveform, but then there are little peaks here & there, which to me looks like the piano part peaking above whatever other signal is there. When you listen back to the track, is there a hum or buzz or something similar? If so, what's causing it?
 
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