G
gehauser
New member
jotangent is right. Room treatment is done to remove/reduce bad early reflections and standing waves in the room. Isolation (which you refer to) is another ballgame.
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jotangent is right. Room treatment is done to remove/reduce bad early reflections and standing waves in the room. Isolation (which you refer to) is another ballgame.
Jeff_D
New member
Room treatment (as mentioned above) is intended to treat the acoustics of the space, and not to isolate from noise (this would be the often confused difference between "soundproofing" and "acoustic treatment"). I would dedicate at LEAST 1/3 of your budget to acoustic treatment right off the bat. No matter how nice of equipment you get, you'll be mixing in the dark in an untreated room. Easy rules of thumb; treat the room corners and first reflection points (between the speakers and your ears), and don't waste a penny on anything resembling foam, carpet pad or egg crates.
Jeff_D
New member
Emu's affiliation with Creative is enough for me to never recommend anything they make.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Although you say you have no recording gear, have you any recording experience ? Is this a totally new area for you ?
dastrick
huh???
+1.
Dynamic range specs may be better, but what about the preamps, converters, compatibility, etc. I would trust Focusrite, Presonus, MOTU, RME, Apogee, etc much more than EMU.
And if I had $3000, I would definitely spend a good chunk of it on room treatment. If I had a room to treat, I would've already treated it.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
If you had an inkling to go analog I'd buy a Tascam 388 and a Fostex 20 or a Teac 22-2. That will set you back about a $750 or so.
If not, M-Audio has decent multitrack cards under $200, Delta 44 or 1010LT. The latter I've seen advertised at about $150. A decent PC is required, but you can shop around local or peruse Craigslist, and there is probably some kid who will build you one for $500-1000, or you can go to Fry's. If you get an off the shelf kind of thing from Fry's you want to make sure you optimize the OS that is installed, (ie turn off all the unnecessary crap running in the background.)
Or you can download 64Studio or Ubuntu Studio and have a stand alone DAW o/s for free, just make sure the sound card you get is supported on Linux, e.g. M-Audio, and RME, the latter is going to cost you more. If you stay with Windows, Kristal audio is free, (limited to 16 tracks.)
If you already have a hi-fi, it can double as your monitor system depending on how you set up your gear/room. Otherwise figure $200-400 for monitoring. You can get by on that, as long as you reference your monitors to known quanities, i.e. play some music in similar style through the system to get to know how they sound in your environment.
Some of the mid range Chinese microphones aren't too bad, in the $100-200 range, MXL comes to mind, and you can mod them up if so inclined. You may need some more preamps too. Are you into DIY at all? if so, you can build a tube based preamp for about $50-100 if you are really frugal w/ parts shopping. (Google New York Dave one bottle or McTube) or again see PAIA. Get yourself a good book on home recording: $30. I bought "the musician's guide to home recording" when it came out, it is geared toward analog recording, but lots of useful info. There are plenty of books like that, I think Craig Anderton has one also, with Sting on the cover and a Teac 3340. Look at southside glen's independentrecording.net has lots of book recommendations.
Don't forget ancillary stuff like mic stands and cables. After a while that can add up, but a decent mic stand shouldn't set you back more than $30 tops. So, figure about $100-150 for that. You probably want at least three with booms. Ditto on the SM57, good versatile dynamic microphone. $100. Be careful not to buy used, as a lot of counterfeit ones floating around.
For acoustic guitar you have some options. PAIA has a M+S electret kit for about US$110.
Check out the show me your studio thread, which has some "gear p***" pictures, but can give you some ideas on room treatment.
I'm assuming you're going to use a drum machine, have you factored in that cost? You have a lot of options there, depending on how many outputs you want etc, or if you intend to use software only.
If not, M-Audio has decent multitrack cards under $200, Delta 44 or 1010LT. The latter I've seen advertised at about $150. A decent PC is required, but you can shop around local or peruse Craigslist, and there is probably some kid who will build you one for $500-1000, or you can go to Fry's. If you get an off the shelf kind of thing from Fry's you want to make sure you optimize the OS that is installed, (ie turn off all the unnecessary crap running in the background.)
Or you can download 64Studio or Ubuntu Studio and have a stand alone DAW o/s for free, just make sure the sound card you get is supported on Linux, e.g. M-Audio, and RME, the latter is going to cost you more. If you stay with Windows, Kristal audio is free, (limited to 16 tracks.)
If you already have a hi-fi, it can double as your monitor system depending on how you set up your gear/room. Otherwise figure $200-400 for monitoring. You can get by on that, as long as you reference your monitors to known quanities, i.e. play some music in similar style through the system to get to know how they sound in your environment.
Some of the mid range Chinese microphones aren't too bad, in the $100-200 range, MXL comes to mind, and you can mod them up if so inclined. You may need some more preamps too. Are you into DIY at all? if so, you can build a tube based preamp for about $50-100 if you are really frugal w/ parts shopping. (Google New York Dave one bottle or McTube) or again see PAIA. Get yourself a good book on home recording: $30. I bought "the musician's guide to home recording" when it came out, it is geared toward analog recording, but lots of useful info. There are plenty of books like that, I think Craig Anderton has one also, with Sting on the cover and a Teac 3340. Look at southside glen's independentrecording.net has lots of book recommendations.
Don't forget ancillary stuff like mic stands and cables. After a while that can add up, but a decent mic stand shouldn't set you back more than $30 tops. So, figure about $100-150 for that. You probably want at least three with booms. Ditto on the SM57, good versatile dynamic microphone. $100. Be careful not to buy used, as a lot of counterfeit ones floating around.
For acoustic guitar you have some options. PAIA has a M+S electret kit for about US$110.
Check out the show me your studio thread, which has some "gear p***" pictures, but can give you some ideas on room treatment.
I'm assuming you're going to use a drum machine, have you factored in that cost? You have a lot of options there, depending on how many outputs you want etc, or if you intend to use software only.
J
jotangent
New member
don't waste a penny on anything resembling foam, carpet pad or egg crates.
+1 on that
Never spend money on snake oil acoustic foam treatments Owens & Coning 703 is all you need and some burlap to cover it in (it has nasty particles) Back it with thin plywood and make some braces out of 1"/1" pine to keep it true and give you something to hang it off. I am in the UK so cant get it, you are lucky to be where you are my friend.
N
Nelaelu
New member
OK guys. Thanks for everything so far...
You convinced me that the ROOM TREATMENT is very important. The problem is that I don't want to mess with my current room too much. I'm still living with my parents and they might be not happy about it. When I'm gonna get my own place (probably in 1-2 years) I will do it how it's supposed to be done. For now, I can only go with something not requiring too much "construction" (and mess). Advice?
I'm gonna use computer (most likely PC), so talking about analog recorders is not neccesairy. I will probably use firewire and go mixerless - unless there are some serious reasons not to do so... (?)
I probably won't need to record more then 2 tracks at once. However, having 4 available could come in handy in the future...
Also, I don't want to buy all the cheapest stuff available to get everything for $3000. I want to spend that money for some nice basics that I could start with (like decent interface, 1-2 microphones etc.). Later, I'll be able to buy more stuff. Don't hesitate to recommend slightly more expensive stuff (unless you think it DOESN'T make sense to spend extra money in some cases).
I'm reading Tweakheads, going to different music stores, and asking anyone, who seems credible about the topic... so I guess I'm getting a nice dose of information before buying anything. Still NEED MORE though...
You convinced me that the ROOM TREATMENT is very important. The problem is that I don't want to mess with my current room too much. I'm still living with my parents and they might be not happy about it. When I'm gonna get my own place (probably in 1-2 years) I will do it how it's supposed to be done. For now, I can only go with something not requiring too much "construction" (and mess). Advice?
I'm gonna use computer (most likely PC), so talking about analog recorders is not neccesairy. I will probably use firewire and go mixerless - unless there are some serious reasons not to do so... (?)
I probably won't need to record more then 2 tracks at once. However, having 4 available could come in handy in the future...
Also, I don't want to buy all the cheapest stuff available to get everything for $3000. I want to spend that money for some nice basics that I could start with (like decent interface, 1-2 microphones etc.). Later, I'll be able to buy more stuff. Don't hesitate to recommend slightly more expensive stuff (unless you think it DOESN'T make sense to spend extra money in some cases).
I'm reading Tweakheads, going to different music stores, and asking anyone, who seems credible about the topic... so I guess I'm getting a nice dose of information before buying anything. Still NEED MORE though...
L
lastdays
New member
Well if this question was posted on a certain other nameless forum, they would most likely tell you to make sure you get a shure sm7b dynamic mic for vocals and everything else (unless your voice is "fragile") and a Golden Age pre-73 Mic preamp, preferably a "modded" one from Golden Age PRE-73 | Preamps @ ZenProAudio.com
As for the interface, if you are using it on Windows 7 64 bit with your new computer, keep in mind they dont all work well! There is some good stuff on this forum on that subject.
+1 to the guy who suggested Komplete 7, while it is around $500, and you dont need to get it right away, it includes some AMAZING virtual intruments and some drum stuff you can use with your keyboard
On acoustic treatment, check out the ready acoustic ready bags you stick the insulation stuff in the bags, hang it on the wall or stick it in the corner, no mess and they are parent friendly
BTW, not suggesting that the sm7b would be the ONLY mic you would need, just a good versatile one
As for the interface, if you are using it on Windows 7 64 bit with your new computer, keep in mind they dont all work well! There is some good stuff on this forum on that subject.
+1 to the guy who suggested Komplete 7, while it is around $500, and you dont need to get it right away, it includes some AMAZING virtual intruments and some drum stuff you can use with your keyboard
On acoustic treatment, check out the ready acoustic ready bags you stick the insulation stuff in the bags, hang it on the wall or stick it in the corner, no mess and they are parent friendly
BTW, not suggesting that the sm7b would be the ONLY mic you would need, just a good versatile one
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M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Just in the back of the station wagon on the floor .... those fries will be there longer than the pyramids!
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
guitar zero
c = b#
Good advice. Listen to this. Do this FIRST. It WILL save you pain.Room treatment (as mentioned above) is intended to treat the acoustics of the space, and not to isolate from noise (this would be the often confused difference between "soundproofing" and "acoustic treatment"). I would dedicate at LEAST 1/3 of your budget to acoustic treatment right off the bat. No matter how nice of equipment you get, you'll be mixing in the dark in an untreated room. Easy rules of thumb; treat the room corners and first reflection points (between the speakers and your ears), and don't waste a penny on anything resembling foam, carpet pad or egg crates.
Build your own. Easy and cheap. And don't just run down to home depot and get any old fiberglass insulation. It needs to be Owens-Corning 705 or 703, or rockwool. I get mine here:
Owens Corning 703, Roxul Mineral Wool, and Other Acoustic Materials
Make your bass traps at least 4 inches deep, first reflection points can be 2 inch deep. It WILL make a world of difference, and is worth every penny. It's not sexy or shiny like new gear, but it will improve your sound exponentially per dollar over new gear.
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