how to tell someone their choice of distortion sucks

T

thexflamesxburn

New member
so ive been recording this hardcore band. the drums sound fine. not too happy with them yet, but i can deal for now.

so they start to do guitars. marshall jcm2000 head and cab. and he's pumping into an ibanez distortion footpedal. he insists on keeping his 150watt head cranked up super loud. naturally the guitar sounds on the recording do not sound that good. its all muffled, muddy. wayyyyyy too much distortion.

i suggested turning the volume down significantly, losing the ibanez footpedal, and eqing differently. he gave me a no to each.

am i going crazy? is there any way to mix such a muddy guitar sound into something half decent? was i right in suggesting what i did?
 
Yeah, you were right. Did he still give you a no after hearing the recorded sound?

I went through this with a band this summer. Guitar player had some Marshall half stack just totally dimed. Sounded fun in the room, but I knew it wouldn't record well. (Oh yeah, we'd already tracked the drums & bass.) So instead of fighting with him, I tracked a song with it his way.

He (and the rest of the band) listened to a faders up rough mix. He wasn't impressed. At this point he was at least willing to try it my way. Needless to say he did the rest of the EP my way.

I'm much older than these guys, and they knew of me before they recorded with me--so I had that dad/mentor thing working for me. That may have made my situation easier than yours--but I say you did the right thing.
 
I usually get around this because I have the cabinet in another room and the head in the control room. So, we just only hear the sound coming through the mics in the control room. When they start playing and it sounds like crap, one of us starts twisting knobs.

What the amp sounds like in the room is irrelevant because no one is in there.

I also give them the live tone vs studio tone speach. If that doesn't work, I have the raw tracks from a Lacuna Coil song to show him that the 'super high gain sound' really doesn't have that much gain.
 
hmm i guess im gonna have to try talking to them again. unfortunately i am younger than them by about 3-4 years, so i can't use the dad approach :/

i can use the smarter than you approach, but that doesn't usually end well :)
 
  1. Take their money.
  2. Let them deal with trying to sell CD's with poopy tone.
  3. Spend their money getting cool gear.
  4. When they can't sell any CD's, they blame you, and never come back to record with you. So?
  5. Any of their money you didn't spend on cool gear can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.

Seriously, I equate this with trying to explain your acid trip to a stranger. You know the tone sucks. But most guitar players are gullible and neurotic, and spend their life trying to copy Van Halen's tone, and cherish thinking they have the secret. I gave up a looooooong time ago trying to share my tone secrets. While everyone is thinking their newest pickup/tube/overdrive pedal/blah blah blah makes them sound like God, ....... ah, fuck 'em all. The only thing worse than trying to record a heavy metal guitar player is trying to record a blues guitar player. Tell him he sounds like a chain saw, and you cannot tell if he is playing in F or F#. It'll go in one ear and out the other.
If you really want to be an asshole, after the band leaves have another guitar player re-record all the parts with a good tone. I actually had this happen to a friend that thought he was King Fertilizer after his band went and recorded their debut album in a big fancy New York studio. After listening to the album at a release party, we all knew there was no way in Hell he could play solos like that, and the tone was awesome. The manager's response? Hey! We couldn't release the album like that, and it would cost too much to re-record it with you.
rofl.gif
 
Another option would be to run his guitar into a direct box and record a dry track along with his crappy tone then reamp the dry track with a properly set up rig after he leaves.
 
ocnor said:
Another option would be to run his guitar into a direct box and record a dry track along with his crappy tone then reamp the dry track with a properly set up rig after he leaves.
Click to expand...

Second that, it's a smart way to avoid conflict.
 
thexflamesxburn said:
so ive been recording this hardcore band. the drums sound fine. not too happy with them yet, but i can deal for now.

so they start to do guitars. marshall jcm2000 head and cab. and he's pumping into an ibanez distortion footpedal. he insists on keeping his 150watt head cranked up super loud. naturally the guitar sounds on the recording do not sound that good. its all muffled, muddy. wayyyyyy too much distortion.

i suggested turning the volume down significantly, losing the ibanez footpedal, and eqing differently. he gave me a no to each.

am i going crazy? is there any way to mix such a muddy guitar sound into something half decent? was i right in suggesting what i did?
Click to expand...

give the idiots what they want:rolleyes:

However....
ocnor said:
Another option would be to run his guitar into a direct box and record a dry track along with his crappy tone then reamp the dry track with a properly set up rig after he leaves.
Click to expand...
I do agree with this approach 100% also.
 
easy fix:

split the signal, let him hear the amp, but record the DI through a proper DI box (even somthing like a podxt on bypass or whatever) and just use an ampsim.

I do this for ALL of my guitarists, even those who's tone isnt that bad.

ampsims just work better on recordings for me, so far.
 
ranjam said:
5. Any of their money you didn't spend on cool gear can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.
Click to expand...

  1. Any of their money you didn't spend on cool gear can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.
  2. Any of their money ... can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.
  3. Any ... alcohol ... you forget the whole mess.
  4. ... alcohol ... forget the whole mess.
  5. ... alcohol ...

Best solution ever! :D
 
The other thing you have to realize is that most guys are trying to get a feel from the guitar, not a sound. If you can get a decent tone without taking away the way the guitar feels when they play, they will cooperate.
Get a compressor/sustainer pedal. This will allow you to back off the gain a lot without the guitar player losing the smooth feel that he is used to.
 
Farview said:
The other thing you have to realize is that most guys are trying to get a feel from the guitar, not a sound. If you can get a decent tone without taking away the way the guitar feels when they play, they will cooperate.
Get a compressor/sustainer pedal. This will allow you to back off the gain a lot without the guitar player losing the smooth feel that he is used to.
Click to expand...

+1. Excellent advice.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
  1. Any of their money you didn't spend on cool gear can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.
  2. Any of their money ... can get you enough alcohol so you forget the whole mess.
  3. Any ... alcohol ... you forget the whole mess.
  4. ... alcohol ... forget the whole mess.
  5. ... alcohol ...

Best solution ever! :D
Click to expand...


LOL Awesome post.
 
ocnor said:
Another option would be to run his guitar into a direct box and record a dry track along with his crappy tone then reamp the dry track with a properly set up rig after he leaves.
Click to expand...

WOW i never thought of that. im going to try it!!

VomitHatSteve said:
  1. ... alcohol ...
Click to expand...

im definitely trying this too.


Farview said:
The other thing you have to realize is that most guys are trying to get a feel from the guitar, not a sound. If you can get a decent tone without taking away the way the guitar feels when they play, they will cooperate.
Get a compressor/sustainer pedal. This will allow you to back off the gain a lot without the guitar player losing the smooth feel that he is used to.
Click to expand...

he was using a compression/sustainer pedal, but i didnt even think to mess with that. another good solution!

gosh i love this forum, you all make me blush :p
 
Tell him you slept with his gf/fiance/wife. After he gets SUPER upset and threatens violence, tell him you were kidding but you hate his distortion sound and he should change it. By comparision, he probably wont be that upset and might listen.
 
LucifersGhost said:
Tell him you slept with his gf/fiance/wife. After he gets SUPER upset and threatens violence, tell him you were kidding but you hate his distortion sound and he should change it. By comparision, he probably wont be that upset and might listen.
Click to expand...

I like that kind of logic... :D
 
The DI/Reamp was the first thing I thought of. Tell him you do it for monitoring purposes, then throw away his track later.

Alternatively, tell him "I see what you're going for, sound wise. I just think, maybe for this project, you might want to go with a sound that is not awful."

Worst case: I have no problem with putting out something substandard, provided they pay up, and agree not to put my name anywhere near the pile in question.
 
thexflamesxburn said:
so ive been recording this hardcore band. the drums sound fine. not too happy with them yet, but i can deal for now.

so they start to do guitars. marshall jcm2000 head and cab. and he's pumping into an ibanez distortion footpedal. he insists on keeping his 150watt head cranked up super loud. naturally the guitar sounds on the recording do not sound that good. its all muffled, muddy. wayyyyyy too much distortion.

i suggested turning the volume down significantly, losing the ibanez footpedal, and eqing differently. he gave me a no to each.

am i going crazy? is there any way to mix such a muddy guitar sound into something half decent? was i right in suggesting what i did?
Click to expand...

Take the battery out of his pedal and set it to bypass.
 
Tell him straight up your not gonna be part of the project if he insists on shitty tones and that your keeping the money for all the time wasted.
 
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