How to rid my tracks of ess

M

Mealz

New member
I am having trouble recording female vocals. I seem to be getting to much of the hiss/ess sound coming through.

I am using a rode nt1. Is this a characteristic of this mic? Just a common problem or what?

I have been informed that using eq can help a lot. What frequency should i try to cut it out with?

Any other suggestions?
 
Yes, EQ can help, but it is kind of a 'brute force' approach. The offending frequencies usually reside in the neighborhood of 7khz. Try sweeping that area with a very narrow band of parametric EQ (boosting the frequency will help you narrow down exactly where it is) then cut about 4db at that frequency & see how it sounds - adjust the amount of cut to taste.
While this works to a certain extent, it often causes the vocal to lose some clarity or 'sparkle'. The more sophisticated approach is to use a compressor with a side band. Mult (split or duplicate) the vocal track and insert the compressor on one of the clones - on the other, boost the 'sss' frequency 6db or more and feed this signal into the side-chain of the compressor (do NOT put this EQed channel in your mix). Use a medium ratio (try 4:1 for a start) on the compressor and adjust the threshold until you're seeing about 6db of gain reduction on the esses. It may take a bit of fiddling with the settings to get this sounding right, specially if you're not too savy about compressors. I don't own the mic you're using, but I will suggest that matching the mic to the vocalist is the best problem solver - that's why it's a good idea to have a variety of mics in your cabinet. Hey - nobody told you this recording stuff was gonna be easy (or cheap), did they? :D

Scott
 
Sometimes a Pop filter will help for those sweeping breathy SSSSSSS sounds. It helped me out a little with my v67. Just an idea. Digitmus may have the idea for ya, but it is way over my head. Good job on the explanation though.

Fangar
 
Finding the right mic for the vocalist is the first thing to try.

Another suggestion would be to have the vocalist sing off axis a bit or farther away from the mic.
 
Yeah, I'll second Angie on the mic selection and off-axis things. The less expensive ld condensors tend to have that spitty top-end. If you must use one, experiment with placing the mic around forehead height aiming the diaphram down at the nose. Note: this only works if you can convince the singer to still sing straight ahead at level. Subconsciously, she will want to sing up into the mic. So set up another mic right in front of her like a stage mic and instruct her to sing into that. Hell, record that mic if you got the tracks, cuz you never know where the gold's going to come from.
-kent
 
i also have the NT1 and it seems to be a crappy mic...sorry, but it's the truth. that has always been my biggest complaint, and no matter how much eq, mic modeling i use, i still can hear those esssss', and tingy sounds.
 
that was my big complaint also.

The mic has to much of the essing sound, and I couldn't get the vocals to sit in the mix.
 
In fairness to the NT1, it is not the only inexpensive LD condensor with this propenssssity. A lot of are a bit hyped somewhere in the 5-12k range. You get increased vocal intelligibility (so you're listening in the store going "Man, this is going to be a great vocal mic! It sounds better than a U87!") but at what price?
-kent
 
EVERY vocal track I have heard using a NT 1 had that annoying 7KHz bump to it. Try a AT 4050.

I am a Creep!
 
Is there any good news about my mic??

please someone make me feel better!

does it suit anyone/anything?
 
Mealz said:
Is there any good news about my mic??

please someone make me feel better!

does it suit anyone/anything?
Click to expand...

Probably suits a guy who has bad hearing in the 5-10KHz range! :)

It is not the end of the world, you just need a different mic.

The NT 1 had to have been the start of overhyping mics. Now they do the same with everything in audio: mics, preamps, dynamic processors, A/D/A converters, monitors. I think the huge sales of the NT 1 showed manufactures that they can build junk and have it sell if it is marketed right.

In this case, they relied on your lack of knowledge. You assumed that a cheap LD mic was going to deliver at least acceptable results for your recordings. You are now experiencing the you get what you pay for part of it. :) That I suppose is the good news.

Don't feel bad, I am sure that hundreds and hundreds of people are going to come back in about a year noticing how their varying Marshall and Behringers mics really sound, and won't like it much because the marketing hype claimed that these mics sound just like Neumann's and Sony's and all that. LOL, and at only $169!!!

Buyer beware!!! The microphone is quite possibly to most important element in your recording chain. It is more important than a mic preamp, A/D/A converter, bit depth, sample rate, or any eq/dynamic processing done in digital or analog. It really doesn't pay off to be a cheap skate on mics! You buy a cheap one, you will get a cheap sound more than likely.

I suggest that for beginners that mid priced mics be selected. I suggest this because you in time will find out the limitations of it, but you will also realize that it has some uses that it is very good at. To my ears, the really cheap mics just never quite work out well for anything. But I just have this feeling that some person is going to start saying how Harvery Gerst uses this, recommends that, has this other. I say that when you have recorded enough good artists over many years, maybe then you can make a subjective decision on what a cheap mic will work well on. I know Harvey doesn't like his Marshall mics for everything, but that is exactly what many of you guys around here are going to use them for! Many of you are going to use it whether is fits your voice or not! Now will a more expensive AT4050 work for every voice? No, that has not been my experience, but, it's averages in use at the studio are much higher than any other mic I have owned in my life! A truely good sounding work horse that just seem to deliver the right sound in many different uses. There are times when it sound adequate but another mic sound killer, but again, it always seems to be adequate.

Invest in good mics at first. I really don't think you are doing yourself a favor buying any LD condensor for under around $400 these days. Really, to get into the cool stuff, you need to spend around double that.

I am a Creep!
 
Creepy is very right on a lot of points but somehow I feel I must respond, but I'm not too sure what to say right now. Gimme a day to think about how to answer his post. Great post, BTW.
 
You didn't mention what you are recording to.If you are using a wave editing program like Cool Edit or something,you can zoom in on the errant ssss sounds on the wave form and highlight just the sssss and eq or de ess those individually to keep from processing the rest of the track with the de ess treatment.In this way,you might preserve a good breathy sparkle and fix the ssss sounds too.First though,work on your tracking tecqnique to minimize the necessity for any processing at mix time.

Good Luck!
 
Mealz,I think that for now you shouldn't abandon the NT1 but that you should learn to use EQ and miccing technique to get the most out of it.At your age you have time to save for a better mic if you desire but the knowledge you gain out of learning to get the very most you can out of your equipment will benefit you more in the long run then if you had the budget to just throw money at the problem.

I haven't heard the NT1 but I'm sure it is much better than the mics I started with and it's probably better than some of the mics I have now.Keep praticing your craft and keep coming here to ask questions but remember the best solution is not always to throw money at a problem(although thats usually the easiest).

Creepy,I have to respectfully disagree that a home recordist should restrict his mic purchases to $400 or more.You have to remember that this is Home Recording.com and that many(probably most)of the people here are just that,home recordist.I have heard recordings made with Shure SM57's and (gasp)Mxl2001p's(I hate this mic)and the cds sounded pretty damn good.Maybe not ready for national distribution but this is Home Recording.com.I think telling a 15 yo kid that his mic is unusable and that he needs to spend a minimum of four bills on a new one is unreasonable given his age,budget and needs.Once he has learned to use his equipment to its fullest potentual then its time for an upgrade if he still feels he needs one.
 
Creepy’s post is a good reality check, but I just want to say...
Creepy said:
...I suggest that for beginners that mid priced mics be selected. I suggest this because you in time will find out the limitations of it, but you will also realize that it has some uses that it is very good at. To my ears, the really cheap mics just never quite work out well for anything. But I just have this feeling that some person is going to start saying how Harvery Gerst uses this, recommends that, has this other. I say that when you have recorded enough good artists over many years, maybe then you can make a subjective decision on what a cheap mic will work well on. I know Harvey doesn't like his Marshall mics for everything, but that is exactly what many of you guys around here are going to use them for! Many of you are going to use it whether is fits your voice or not!
Click to expand...
I can’t argue with that. If we used mics for the wrong situation, despite all the help given with choosing the application (eg. Polar Patterns thread), then that would be pretty silly. Are we doing that though? I’m not sure why you are bringing that up here.
Creepy said:
Now will a more expensive AT4050 work for every voice? No, that has not been my experience, but, it's averages in use at the studio are much higher than any other mic I have owned in my life! A truely good sounding work horse that just seem to deliver the right sound in many different uses. There are times when it sound adequate but another mic sound killer, but again, it always seems to be adequate.

Invest in good mics at first. I really don't think you are doing yourself a favor buying any LD condensor for under around $400 these days. Really, to get into the cool stuff, you need to spend around double that.

I am a Creep!
Click to expand...
Comparing an MXL-V67 @ $130 to a mulitpatterned AT-4050 which is six times the price, just isn’t cricket old bean. Right now I’m happy with my V67. I’ll get better at using it and learn its limitations, just as I would with a $400 or $800 mike. In a year or two I may have the commitment and experience to determine for myself if a particular expensive mike is for me (by which time the price will be lower I’m hedging). In the meantime, I will have had use of and gained experience with an LD, at minimal cost. And if I end up agreeing with HG, I will have the opinion that it is not a bad mike, and I will still find uses for it without as much trouble as you suggest.

P.S. Why are you a creep? :)
 
rathpy said:
Creepy’s post is a good reality check, but I just want to say...I can’t argue with that. If we used mics for the wrong situation, despite all the help given with choosing the application (eg. Polar Patterns thread), then that would be pretty silly. Are we doing that though? I’m not sure why you are bringing that up here.Comparing an MXL-V67 @ $130 to a mulitpatterned AT-4050 which is six times the price, just isn’t cricket old bean. Right now I’m happy with my V67. I’ll get better at using it and learn its limitations, just as I would with a $400 or $800 mike. In a year or two I may have the commitment and experience to determine for myself if a particular expensive mike is for me (by which time the price will be lower I’m hedging). In the meantime, I will have had use of and gained experience with an LD, at minimal cost. And if I end up agreeing with HG, I will have the opinion that it is not a bad mike, and I will still find uses for it without as much trouble as you suggest.

P.S. Why are you a creep? :)
Click to expand...

Interesting post friend.

First off, I suggest a first purchase being a mid priced mic mainly because they are usually the safest bet for someone starting out in recording. You know, it wasn't that long ago that a AT 4033 had a retail price of $800! It is less than half that now! At the time it was double the price, it was considered to be the cheapest LD mic there was! Now it sells at half the price. Somehow, I just cannot imagine a better mic can be made for less. I could very well be wrong, but I have listened to a lot of homemade music (home recordings) that have attempted to make these budget mics work out, and as a whole, I just don't hear where they are a good investment. In the hands of a person that has a lot of experience with good mics, I can see these budget mics working out better, but my experience with cheap LD's is that you have to be very careful how you use them, even when you know what you are doing with them. I feel it takes years of using at least good staples to get to that point. If the mic is handcapping you, what do you learn? You learn a bunch of fix it type of things. I guess I just feel that it is better to throw your hard earned money at something with a proven track record at first. It gives you a better chance at a good recording, even when it isn't used to it's fullest potential. You see what I am saying? Something like a AT 4050 is still very affordable, and delivers a very good sound. 5 years ago, at the price they are selling for now they would have been considered a steal! Now they are viewed as an expensive mic? I don't buy that concept. Factor in inflation, etc, they have become a great steal! It is a mic that you will probably never outgrow. If you had to have one mic that you are going to use for most uses, it just makes sense to have something of that caliber. When your need grows to needing more than one LD mic at a time, or you need a different flavor, I could personally justify a cheaper mic that works well. At that point, I would have more experience using a pretty good quality mic, and would have something nicer to compare to, in regards to the cheaper mic.

I am a Creep, because I am Creepy! :)

Mr. Gerst. Thank you. I hope you don't feel that I was making a direct attack towards you. Far from it. You have a very good understanding about microphones. I would hope to some day have the same knowledge and respect in the audio community as you. I just think that people tend to read into what you say what they want to hear. And what they want to hear about LD's doesn't always jive with what they want to hear in their recordings.

So, this Creep would rather own a SM-57 and make the best of it rather than invest in a cheap LD. I would personally make due with the 57 and save my pennies for a better quality LD than the current batch of cheap ones out there. At least to my way of thinking, this makes much more sense. A 57 will stay in your studio for years to come. It has certainly proved that it is not a mic de jour. Stuff like the 4050 has proven it isn't a LD mic de jour too! The verdict is still out on many of the cheap LD's, but I suspect many of them just won't stand the test of time. I just can't see wasting money on them. But, I suppose different strokes for different folks. I like the consistent high quality mid priced LD's provide, and I know that 10 years from now, they will still sound good.

I am a Creep!
 
Y’know, regarding longevity, I bought an SM-58 and SM-57 about 15 years ago, just because my band used them. It was just blind luck that I bought these particular items, but it is my good fortune to still have something that I can appreciate the utilty of, “long after I’ve forgotten the price".

But you also know how tempting it is for the recording newbie to get his hands on an LD, don’t you? :) I’m kinda glad I’ve satisfied that itch. As you say, time will tell which particular cheepies work out in the long run, or whether reputations will turn the way the NT1 is heading. I’m guessing that some new entrants must hold up. But until whole swags of unbiased experienced forumites recommend these cheap mikes, I agree that the risk in buying them does seem bigger.

rEgards,
rathpy
 
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