How to record an upright piano using 3 microphones?

[gkalsdl2004]

Hi I am recording a piano using two small-diaphragm condenser microphones and one large-diaphragm condenser microphone.

The small-diaphragm pair is positioned in an XY configuration. I tried using an ORTF setup, but the positioning between the piano and the microphones didn‘t seem quite right.

I’d appreciate any feedback on whether my current microphone placement has any issues or if you have any alternative placement recommendations.

I could use separate stands for each microphone, but due to the amount of other equipment, I have to place all the microphones on a single stand. Thanks

 

[Papanate]

Hi I am recording a piano using two small-diaphragm condenser microphones and one large-diaphragm condenser microphone.

The small-diaphragm pair is positioned in an XY configuration. I tried using an ORTF setup, but the positioning between the piano and the microphones didn‘t seem quite right.

I’d appreciate any feedback on whether my current microphone placement has any issues or if you have any alternative placement recommendations.

I could use separate stands for each microphone, but due to the amount of other equipment, I have to place all the microphones on a single stand. Thanks

Can you post at recording? It looks fine - but I can’t tell how it will sound.

 

[gkalsdl2004]

Can you post at recording? It looks fine - but I can’t tell how it will sound.

I'll record it and post it. Thanks

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Yeah - let's hear it. I've never done it before of course. But my first thought was: why three mics instead of two?

 

[gkalsdl2004]

Yeah - let's hear it. I've never done it before of course. But my first thought was: why three mics instead of two?

I saw some videos where people record an upright piano using four condenser microphones봳wo near the hammers and two on the back or lower panel. But my favorite musician, Kiefer, mentioned that he enjoys recording piano in mono.

So I thought, what if I use a large-diaphragm microphone for mono along with two SDC. Could this be a problem?

I don't think there's a big problem from what I hear, but I was hoping to get some advice if there are better options. Maybe I can post the recording on Monday thanks

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

I saw some videos where people record an upright piano using four condenser microphones봳wo near the hammers and two on the back or lower panel. But my favorite musician, Kiefer, mentioned that he enjoys recording piano in mono.

So I thought, what if I use a large-diaphragm microphone for mono along with two SDC. Could this be a problem?

I don't think there's a big problem from what I hear, but I was hoping to get some advice if there are better options. Maybe I can post the recording on Monday thanks

Please be aware.... I don't know my *ss from a hole in the ground. Seriously - I'm a big time novice. And I've never recorded a piano. I was just thinking that beyond two mics - you may be complicating things unnecessarily. But I don't have any experience to draw from whatsoever.

 

[rob aylestone]

The thing here is that the clever techniques, like the ORTF and variants of X/Y are designed to record larger groups of performers and they do a decent job of capturing a stereo field that reproduces properly on replay, with depth and placement info.

On both grands and upright pianos, the sound really comes from the soundboard so there's never really a proper left and right, so crossed pairs from 70 through to 120 degrees produce different results. Close in, what you tend to get is the basic tone of the piano with not that much left and right difference on the basic sound, but you do get the dampers bashing the strings when they mute in sort of enhanced 'stereo' - can sounds really good, but it's not really ORTF of the others, because they're not designed to do this job.
If you have time, I'd strongly suggest connecting one of the mics to some closed back or in-ear headphones and turn the level up and try all sorts of positions. Some will be thin and weedy, some darker and maybe a bit dull on the bass strings. Two mics, in the best positions for capturing the entire range of strings and harmonics work, when panned modestly, not mega wide which for effect is great, but not for realism. Uprights suffer because the gubbins that connect keys to hammers is in the way. Far less so on grands. The most common recording positions seem to be two space small diaphragm condenser, one pointing down to the left and the other doing the same job on the higher strings - the sound board sounds tend to emerge that way, as well as the string tones.

The pics of your placement suggest that you'll get a bit of a weak tone from the pair, and more meaty sound from the centre mic. Depending on the piano, this could be brilliant, or absolutely awful. You can generalise on rough techniques, but some respond very differently. Yamaha C3s could have one mic under the sound board, pointing upwards just behind the pedal board frame. (unless it creaks). The same position on a G2 sounds horrible. I recorded a piano a few years back with different positions, including the mic held in my hand moving around. Might be worth a watch.

I actually did a more recent video with just a single mic -that's quite good with a bit of reverb to be fair.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

There's about a million ways to record a piano. The obvious thing that looks wonky about your setup is that the LDC is at a great distance to have phase issues with the SDCs.

If I were to do 3 mic recording... My first impulses would be SDCs at opposite ends of the piano, and LDC across the room. Or reverse that: LDC in the middle of the piano, and SDCs in a stereo pair across the room.

 

[rob aylestone]

Steve - that's rarely is three mics a problem on pianos, because the entire instrument is a time arrival nightmare, BUT, this gives it the characteristic sound. low strings can be nearly 6ft from the highest ones, so with two or more mics, it's always going to have timing issues leading to the phasing. The bass strings are always in the mic pointing at the treble ones, because the soundboard carries them right across. Your comment on the SDCs across the room, with the other close in is pretty much what the sample package people tend to do - but only in a good room - in my piano room here, room mics sound terrible and boxy. On a stage or in a proper space, it can be gorgeous.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I've had some decent results placing the mics on the back, 2 PZMs on the wall about a meter off the floor and about 60 cm apart, with the piano about 30 cm out from the wall.