How to mix electric guitar in a song...

[lttoler]

I am working on a demo for my cover band and I am the only guitarist. Some songs have acoustic in it as well and those are sounding great no problem, but I am having to be a little more creative with the tracks that just have one guitar. We do a lot of Red Hot Chili Pepper and similar stuff.

Can any of you tell me how you would mix the electric guitar in a situation like this? Thanks in advance!

 

[Guitargodgt]

Play the guitar, pan it a little eq out some of the lows?

You are asking a REALLY vague question. I mean really vague.

In recording it's usually best to get as specific as possible when you ask something.

 

[Track Rat]

Clean electric? Crunchy electric? Super over driven electric? It's like asking how much paint to cover a building? Oh, and what color?

 

[Greg_L]

Step 1: Make sure your tone is good
Step 2: Put a mic in front of the cab and listen...
Step 3: Re position the mic because your first position probably won't be any good
Step 4: Press record
Step 5: Play well
Step 6: Go back to step one if necessary
Step 7: Record it again
Step 8: Pan one guitar track left of center, the other right of center
Step 8: EQ if necessary
Step 9: Go back to step one if necessary

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Step 10: push the faders up and down until it is at the right volume.
Step 11: go back to step 1 if necessary.

Honestly, I think electric guitars are one of the easier instruments to record and mix. If you spend the time to get the tone right, record some samples to see if the tone in the room translates well to recorded tone, it's pretty easy (compared to other instruments). The two big things IMO are 1) keep the distortion much lower than you think you'll want it, and 2) always reference how the recorded tone sits with the bass and vocals. If you can get those two right during recording, mixing is usually just pushing faders (and maybe a little EQ).

Also, how are you recording it...sm57 on the grill, LDC a few feet off? How much overdrive are you giving it? Have you recorded anything yet...if so what do you like and dislike about it?

 

[whirlwindRA]

Everyone always told me to record with a lot less gain than I would expect, and that's what I've been doing for months now. I still wasn't happy with the sound, so I turned it back up higher and I think the sound cuts through way better.

 

[ranjam]

................

Step 7: Record it again
Step 8: Pan one guitar track left of center, the other right of center
Step 8: EQ if necessary

That works well, and because it is almost humanly impossible to play it again exactly the same, there's a little something that makes the listener's ears prick up. What I've done a little different is just copy and paste the same track, so it is exactly the same. Then put a little time between the two; move one up maybe 20mS or so. Use your judgment. Now pan one 60% or 70% left and one 60% or 70% right. Or 100% right-left. Again, use your judgment. It's a huge sound. If you want to play the track again, another cool idea is play it again with an acoustic or a clean Tele-like tone, and repeat the time delay-pan trick. You can have all the gain in the world, and instead of sounding mushy, the clean guitar adds definition and clarity. You want to go all out? Copy and paste the dirty guitar, pan and time delay them. Now add a play-it-again clean/acoustic version, but have that dead center. It'll sound 100 feet tall. That's always been something I've done, and yes, it takes a lot of time. But man is it worth it in the end. Assuming it fits the song, of course.

 

[Greg_L]

I think copy paste and shift sounds like ass and have yet to hear an example of that technique sound good.

 

[Bubba po]

After reading and re-reading the opening post, I think he's asking for ways to make a single guitar have more "width" in the track, without obviously being double or triple-tracked, or adding parts that don't belong.

 

[Greg_L]

After reading and re-reading the opening post, I think he's asking for ways to make a single guitar have more "width" in the track, without obviously being double or triple-tracked, or adding parts that don't belong.

Maybe, but he hasn't been back to his own thread, so whatever.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

yeah double track (record twice or four times) and pan. don't copy/paste and delay...that usually (every time i've heard it or done it) sounds terrible.

The other thing some people do is close mic (sm57 or something), little bit more distant (LDC or ribbon) and pan one mic most of the way L and the other most of the way R. Same guitar just wider because it's a stereo recording now. I even use two mics on the cab, and two in teh corners of the room as ambience sometimes and pan the corners hard L and R and pan the other two 50%...sounds wide in one take, but, just be really careful of cancellation issues.

 

[ranjam]

I think copy paste and shift sounds like ass and have yet to hear an example of that technique sound good.

yeah double track (record twice or four times) and pan. don't copy/paste and delay...that usually (every time i've heard it or done it) sounds terrible.

It's no different than a very subtle stereo delay pedal, so if using delay 'sounds like ass', I suppose that's why ice cream comes in chocolate or vanilla. The fun for me is having that delayed or shifted part EQ'd different, or having an effect. Heck, I've done it on vocals, and it works for me. I'm talking less than 30mS, so it isn't as obvious as you might fear, unless you go crazy adding effects to the delay signal. If you can play the guitar part exactly the same way two or three times, then do it that way. Otherwise, those little difference bug the crap out of me more than shifting a copied and pasted part.
Try a close mic, and a room mic, on separate tracks, and EQ'd differently. Pan them very slightly. There will be a natural delay, so don't have any fear about your manhood being in question. Experiment, and discover something unique. Just remember it's all been done before.

 

[Greg_L]

It's no different than a very subtle stereo delay pedal,.

Yes, it's very different. It's not like a delay at all. You get phase cancellation when you copy/paste/shift/pan. Instead of questioning our manhood, you should question your ears.

 

[Guitargodgt]

I'm with Greg L. No idea why people lazy out with that. It always sounds like phasey garbage to me. The HAAS effect sucks. Just track it twice.

 

[ranjam]

Yes, it's very different. It's not like a delay at all. You get phase cancellation when you copy/paste/shift/pan. Instead of questioning our manhood, you should question your ears.

I'm with Greg L. No idea why people lazy out with that. It always sounds like phasey garbage to me. The HAAS effect sucks. Just track it twice.

OK, rather than get into a pissing contest, here it what I am trying to get across, and if you want to experiment and find out for yourself if you like it, great. If you would rather not, also great. But my Kung Fu is taking a rest.

#1. I question no one's manhood. I said no one should worry about anyone else questioning their manhood if they like to copy/paste/shift. If that's what makes your music sound good to your ears, have at it.
#2. By using an online calculator like so; Phase angle calculation from time delay and frequency calculate phase lag difference time of arrival ITD phi phase shift - sengpielaudio you can 'see' that 20mS and 1KHz has a whopping 7 degrees of phase shift. Whoopie. It takes 25KHz to get 180 degrees. 500Hz has an inaudible 3.6 degree phase shift. And single repeat delay is no different than copy/paste/shift.
#3. If the Haas Effect bothers you, go much less than 25mS, or where most research tells us it begins to make a difference.
#4. The best way to learn is to try it. You can't learn to swim by reading a book. Do.
#5. Rather than elaborate excuses of why it can't be good for the whole planet because you don't care for it, a simple 'whatever floats your boat' is the preferred answer. Always take the high road.

Remember, we're all just amateurs making bedroom recordings of mediocre music that no record company is going to kill for. Nothing to compete with Dark Side Of The Moon in sales and Top 100 longevity. This isn't rocket surgery. So just having fun, and making new sounds that are created by taking chances, and not making excuses of why it can't be this way or that way is all you can do. And I believe most, if not all, of any post I make always stresses that what works for you is 'right'.

Good night, and good luck.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Gross, less than 25ms? That's even worse man!

Also:

The reason I don't do this is quite simple:

--Band asks "can't you just copy and paste it?"

--I say "sure have a listen (shit I even do the delayed track trick as I would at least have to do that for a fair assessment)"

--Then I say "but track a few seconds of it again so I can show that as well"

They never want the shitty copy paste method. Because it sounds like shit. It's usually a pretty terrible realisation to have to track it again good, but once they go through the above test the answer is pretty clear. Track it again.

 

[Greg_L]

experiment and find out for yourself.

I have, many, many times. It never sounds good.

#4. The best way to learn is to try it. You can't learn to swim by reading a book. Do.

You can't mix with online calculators either.


This is one mix instance in which I don't care about personal preference or what "works for you". It sounds like ass to copy/paste/shift/pan. Every time. I'd never recommend it to anyone.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

It's no different than a very subtle stereo delay pedal.

No, it's not even close to the same thing.

One sounds crappy every time I've done it, one sounds good.

A stereo delay is the same signal going to the left and right at different times, it sounds weird to me. Double tracking is two different takes. They could not be more different. But, to the OP, try them both, then come back and thank those who told you to double track.

 

[dasbrodie]

A true Double is the best way to go. All the little idiosyncrasies between the two takes will make the sound "chorus" and fatten up. No matter how good of a player you are recording they can never truly play the exact thing twice. A few milliseconds faster here, a few milliseconds slower there... When you Copy Paste a track and then nudge/shift it 25-40 milliseconds you are just taking the same track and offsetting it. It is not the same thing and in my opinion does not sound so great. However in recording there are no rules. If you love the sound of copied and nudged guitar, vocals , etc.. then by all means let no one stop you.

 

[Wireneck]

I think copy paste and shift sounds like ass and have yet to hear an example of that technique sound good.

Exactly! and if you really can't make two passes that are close enough to not tip off the listener then that's where Editing and Quantizing becomes your friend. Or as a last resort there is always that thing called practice :0