How To Mix Drums?

[Greg_L]

Nice come back....

What happened to your MP3 clinic mixes...?
After leaving them up for so long...all of a sudden NOW you feel they need to be redone?

I guess you were just believing your own hype for awhile there Greg...but sorry….those mixes weren’t that impressive. You obviously like very cluttered mixes.

Lol @ believing hype. This coming from the guy that refuses to believe he could be wrong or that anything he does can sound bad.

I don't usually keep my originals up - especially the older ones. They all get re-done. I left all the other non-original crap. Get it now?

I do like big, full, blow your head off mixes. Sue me. Your drums still sound like shit.

 

[XLR]

you were just believing your own hype for awhile there Greg...but sorry….those mixes weren’t that impressive.

Untrue .

 

[Greg_L]

It doesn't even matter. I'm the most self-deprecating mofo in here. I'm not trying to compete with anyone. I can tell when something sounds like ass though. Miroslavs drums sound like ass and he shouldn't be presenting his opinions about drums as gospel. He gets great guitar tones and nice bass presence, but shitty drums. Whatever.

Again, if yall wana hear a great example of drums done the way miroslav wants them to be done, check out Rami's music. GREAT drum sounds with a minimal setup.

 

[Dr. Varney]

Hey kids, could you please take your little argument somewhere else? It started off somewhat enlightening, now it's descending into the playground. When I'm ready to mic up a drum kit, I'm sure you'll be the first on my list to consult.

Regards

Dr. V

 

[Yammie072]

Greg, I'm just finishing an EP and I'm having some trouble with the drums. After reading your posts, you sound like somebody who could really lend a hand. Have the time to take a listen and offer some advice?

 

[dobro]

Really...?
I'll make a note of that.

There are some unbelievably preconceived notions about how a drum kit should sound.....

Thanks for the explanation of why you panned the snare slightly. (My question wanted information; it wasn't a critique.)

But as for the sound of the snare, I think Greg's right. It sounds flabby. Look you don't know me and you probably don't know Greg very well, and so you don't trust us. But one of the things I've learned to do is to take very seriously what trusted ears other than my own are telling me. Go ask some people you feel you can trust. And if the results go along these lines:

Q: What do you think of the snare sound on this tune?

A: Ass.

A: Ass.

A: Ass, yeah.

...then at least be willing to experiment with a different sound. At the very least, next time.

 

[miroslav]

Miroslavs drums sound like ass and he shouldn't be presenting his opinions about drums as gospel.

You're the one preaching here...you can’t seem to stop.

if yall wana hear a great example of drums done the way miroslav wants them to be done...

And I guess you are also psychic and can read minds....?


I’ll let you know when my finished CD is ready…or feel free to keep picking away at 2-year old rough mixes.
I guess like you, I should quick take them down the minute someone has negative things to say.

Hey kids, could you please take your little argument somewhere else? It started off somewhat enlightening, now it's descending into the playground. When I'm ready to mic up a drum kit, I'm sure you'll be the first on my list to consult.

Sorry guy…I didn’t start the mud-slinging in this thread….

AFA miking up a kit…yeah, I originally thought you were talking about a real kit, not electronic/sampled drums.
noisewreck is your man for that.

 

[miroslav]

Go ask some people you feel you can trust.

Believe me...a lot of folks have heard those rough mixes on my website...and quite a few my final mixes that I sent out for replication. No one...not-a-one...had anything negative to say specifically about the drums...and that includes the drummer who tracked the stuff, who's done recording with others, who plays in a bunch of bands...if anything, he really thought the drums sounded good and better than what he's heard from others he's worked with.
And I doubt everyone was just being “polite”….

Now you guys can all come back and say that none of those people including my drummer and me have good ears (or some other negative comments)...but I think this is all about specific styles VS going with more typical kind of drum/music sounds…and nothing more.

Also...it's about the whole mix, the song...not just the Snare or the Kick...etc.

But by all means…feel free to NOT like my drums or anything else you wish in my songs…it’s your right. I’m already tracking new stuff…and NO I will not be changing my approach based on comments here.
I’m not being snobby…I just know the overall sound I prefer….you may of course disagree.

 

[LemonTree]

more cowbell

 

[miroslav]

Actually...one of the cuts on my CD has some cowbell...

...though I'm sure someone will say it's not panned correctly.

 

[Greg_L]

I’ll let you know when my finished CD is ready…or feel free to keep picking away at 2-year old rough mixes.
I guess like you, I should quick take them down the minute someone has negative things to say.

.

Um, check again Sally, I've still got TONS of stuff on that dumb soundclick page, and most of it isn't good. I just took down the ORIGINALS because they are going on an album. I rarely keep my originals up for long and I didn't know they were still on there. My soundclick page means nothing to me. Nice try, though.

I'll have another original in the clinic in about a week. Feel free to check it out and trash it. Or don't. I don't care either way. I already know your opinion is less than objective and your ears may be worse than that.

As far as picking away at your 2 year old mixes, you're the one defending them so staunchly. They must mean something to you, which tells me your new tracks probably sound the same - shitty. And keep in mind it's JUST THE DRUMS I'm talking about. I'm sure a small part of the reason they sound so awful is because the surrounding tracks sound so good. So don't think I'm just bashing you because I like bashing people. I'm solely talking about your drums, which suck.

 

[Greg_L]

Greg, I'm just finishing an EP and I'm having some trouble with the drums. After reading your posts, you sound like somebody who could really lend a hand. Have the time to take a listen and offer some advice?

Absolutely. Fire me a PM with your stuff and I'll help if i can.

 

[Yammie072]

Thanks Greg. I just posted a new thread in case other people (maybe RAMI?) have some advice for me.

I'm fairly new to recording real drums, so I could definitely use the help. they were all tracked in one session fairly quickly, so tracking issues aren't really fixable (and there are probably plenty of tracking problems). The biggest problem I've noticed is some woofing, but I can't seem to get enough thump from the kick without those problems.

EDIT:
Forgot the link.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=3260989#post3260989

 

[Dr. Varney]

Sorry guy…I didn’t start the mud-slinging in this thread….

Only yesterday, one of my friends from another forum wrote:

"One of the few pieces of advice my Dad gave me was based on a cartoon he saw in a magazine where two drivers faced each other at a narrow bridge, the first shouted as he drove through the gap, "I never back down to an idiot!" The second replied "Don't worry, I always do."

AFA miking up a kit…yeah, I originally thought you were talking about a real kit, not electronic/sampled drums.
noisewreck is your man for that.

Easy thing to overlook. We all do it and maybe I didn't make it crystal clear in my original post. I appreciate you guys know your stuff (which is exactly why you're all arguing, IMO).

Anyway - I'm currently messing about with sends to achieve some of the suggestions made in here, regarding separation. It seems to be working.

Kind regards

Doctor V

 

[kcearl]

wow talk about out of phase snares...man that was way out of phase lol


I put reverb on my kick then again on the whole kit for a boomier sound


but I cant mix for shit...nor do I claim to know anything

 

[Dr. Varney]

I'd really, really like to know how you guys come up with a plan, regarding compression and reverb, etc.

When to and when not to compress/reverb... Hell, I anticipate you telling me to "use my ears" and I'd definitely agree, however I'm looking for a starting point, which is why I'm interested in rules of thumb.

I'm not even 100% sure what a snare should sound like, as in my VST kit, they all sound different and I've never actually played a drum kit. All I know is that there is a bass drum at the bottom and some cymbals at the top.

What are these 'overheads' you've been talking about? Are overheads slang for cymbals? Or is it a mic hanging from the ceiling?

V

 

[suprstar]

Overheads are mics placed above the kit, the idea is that they pick up the entire kit. It's usually 2 condensors specifically positioned to account for phase and stereo separation. Most ppl will also add mics to kick, snare, toms, etc, then use those mics to augment the OH tracks. Sure, hang em from the ceiling, put em on boom stands, whatever. Just get em in the right positions and that's the foundation for your drum mix.

 

[suprstar]

How to know when to compress, add reverb, etc? Experience I guess, this is what I did: Put some dry drum tracks together and make a totally dry drum mix. Play with compressors, fx, and eq's and listen to how they affect the sound. Eventually you can hear the difference immediately and know what's wrong when you hear it.

 

[mattr]

Overheads? Mics that are overhead the kit.

When to compress? Well, compression is a tool - you should know what you want to achieve with it and set up the compressor to do so, not just 'apply some' and hope for the best! Sure, you're allowed to fiddle a bit when setting it up, but that should really be fiddling to find the 'sweet spot' for the settings that achieve what you had in mind. As a rule-of-thumb: if don't know why you're using it, then you shouldn't be using it. So what might you want to achieve by compressing a drum? You might want to enhance the transients by compressing with a longer attack time. You might want to bring out the 'body'/sustain of a drum. You might want to control the dynamics for consistency. But as always it comes down to your choices, the raw tracks you are working with and the unique context of the mix.

 

[miroslav]

As far as picking away at your 2 year old mixes, you're the one defending them so staunchly. They must mean something to you, which tells me your new tracks probably sound the same - shitty. And keep in mind it's JUST THE DRUMS I'm talking about. I'm sure a small part of the reason they sound so awful is because the surrounding tracks sound so good. So don't think I'm just bashing you because I like bashing people. I'm solely talking about your drums, which suck.

Thing is...I'm NOT defending those mixes. Rather, I was defending the "why is your snare panned off-center"...and..."your snare is not in phase" viewpoints from a general perspective (as I don't see that a snare needs to be in the center).
But you found a target, and so you just keep hitting at it over and over, as though you're really saying anything meaningful by repeating "ass" and "shit" over and over again…which IMO is your typical MP3 forum etiquette found on many websites.
A bunch of guys trying to impress each other…or dis each other….

Nothing personal to all the guys looking for honest opinions in the MP3 clinic...but I don't give a rats ass about that kind of stuff or people's SoundClick pages where they demonstrates their ability to cover a bunch of old tunes (regardless how well they cover them.)

For me...it's about songwriting...originals...and getting something new out there as a finished product and not just as some MP3 clinic/SoundClick wet dream… and that means doing something different that doesn't follow any expected cookie-cutter paths or predictable sounding mix paths.

YMMV…..

Had your approach in this discussion been more of a respectful creative critique…we might have spoken differently about some of these things.
But let’s face it…from your first post to me…your goal was to try and ridicule me…while simultaneously lifting yourself to some point of great expertise and wisdom.
You have your fans, obviously…but I didn’t hear anything in your mixes particularly outstanding…rather they are cluttered sounding as I already said…and rather “same-as” sounding. There is no originality in your sound…it’s very canned…regardless if your Snare has lots of POP.

I’m not going for stuff that just gets lost in a sea of other “same-as” sounding music…and to do that, you sometimes have to take risks and approach things from a non-conformist position…
…or in your case…not.