How To Mix Drums?

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Dr. Varney

Dr. Varney

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What's the best way of arranging drums in your digital mixer? I'm using FL Studio.

Do you think it is best to clump several (or all) drum-instruments into one strip and adjust the levels on each of the channel settings or seperate each drum sound into seperate tracks and use the strip level sliders?

In other words, do you treat each drum/cymbal/perc in the kit as a seperate instrument in the mix - or do you tend to treat the drumkit, as a whole, as one instrument?

I'd be interested to read up on how others prefer to work and if you use any general rules of thumb?

Even if you don't use FL Studio, I think the principle will be the same, so I'd like to hear from users of other software, too, to help get a general idea of the best way to go about it and hopefully pick up some new ideas... Even if it's to say there isn't a clear answer and that it depends on the type of music/complexity of the drum pattern?

Thanks

Dr. V
 
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Dr. Varney said:
do you treat each drum/cymbal/perc in the kit as a seperate instrument in the mix - or do you tend to treat the drumkit, as a whole, as one instrument?
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As a whole.

I usually track dums as a stereo kit, and then I'll only add spot-mics on Snare and Kick so I can highlight those two elements a little better as they are key.

Of course...before the stereo track even happens...the whole kit is setup for a blanced sound, so from that perspective, each drum/cymbal IS being individually dealt with.
But...it's a *drum kit*...and not a bunch of individual instruments.

For mixing...I have a stereo pair...and then the additional Snare and Kick tracks are blended in as needed to push them forward.

You can still mic/mix all your drums individually...but I find that a bit too messy, and prefer an OH stereo pair and the two spot-mics.
 
Thanks, Miroslav... Except you're talking about the use of a real drumkit, which I don't have. I'm using VSTs and samples here. Does this mean it might be best for me to assemble a virtual 'drum kit' and treat it as a whole?

Before I posted, I'd tried it various ways and come up with the plan to send some individual drums to an FX strip, for extra emphasis. Does this sound about right?

Dr. V
 
I base everything around my overheads (I leave them at unison) and I base all my volume levels for the entire song around that....but that goes beyond the scope of your question.

Just by fiddling with EQ and compression I have a standard procedure that I use to mix drums....call it a "pre-set" if you will, that I will fine tune for the song/mix at hand. Take overheads, add some slight high shelf at about 6k, roll off the 60 hz, maybe take a dip out of 400 if I find its too cloudy in the overall mix in that region, but often times I don't have a need to. I haven't traditional compressed my overheads although I've begun to do that very lightly now, usually using an 1176SE with light settings. Bring up snare, I usually don't mess with EQ but I put light compression on that, bring it up so the snare as body but doesn't overpower, I don't want the toms to seem quiet in comparison. Then bring up my bass track, which is important since my overheads only pick up a bit of the high end slap. EQ high pass at 55 hz, cut at 180, 400, and a gentle boost at 5k to make it cut through a bit better. Light compression with a slowish attack.

And there's my basic starting point. But this is how I like my drum sound with my drums and my playing. For you its different. But if you want to base your procedure off of what I said, go ahead.
 
Dr. Varney said:
What's the best way of arranging drums in your digital mixer? I'm using FL Studio.

Do you think it is best to clump several (or all) drum-instruments into one strip and adjust the levels on each of the channel settings or seperate each drum sound into seperate tracks and use the strip level sliders?
Click to expand...

Separate each element of the kit, so that you can EQ each element, so that you can pan each element where you want it, and so that you can apply different reverb to each element - you'll probably want some verb on snare but not on the kickdrum, for instance.

And if you're working a mix with non-drum tracks in it as well, it's useful to have all of the separate drum tracks on a submix so that you can quickly adjust the level of the whole kit in relation to everything else in the mix.
 
dobro said:
and so that you can apply different reverb to each element - you'll probably want some verb on snare but not on the kickdrum, for instance.
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I totally disagree with this. Try it if you want your drums to sound stupid. I know rules are made to be broken, but unbalanced kits sound bad. Never in real life will you hear a dry kick and some big verby snare. I agree with the concept of seperating each piece for EQ or compression control, but I'd suggest bussing them all to one group track to get realistic reverb and fine tuning. A drumkit is a collection of individual pieces that make up a whole. Treat it like that and win.
 
Thanks... That's brilliant advice.

I have saved a mix, whereby everything is seperated but I've also saved one where I've thrown the drums together as a 'kit', added a reverb to the track and then separated things like the kick drum and snare off to seperate 'effect tracks' where I can control just those individual instruments.

I like both; they're only subtly different. I guess I could go both ways, potentially. Unfortunately, I have a cold at the moment and I think my ears must be clogged. Suddenly, my ears went pop (you know that sensation) and everything became suddenly clearer and louder.

Dr. V
 
Greg_L said:
I totally disagree with this. Try it if you want your drums to sound stupid. I know rules are made to be broken, but unbalanced kits sound bad. Never in real life will you hear a dry kick and some big verby snare. I agree with the concept of seperating each piece for EQ or compression control, but I'd suggest bussing them all to one group track to get realistic reverb and fine tuning. A drumkit is a collection of individual pieces that make up a whole. Treat it like that and win.
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Hey, Greg - the reason for running the whole kit through a submix is so that you can apply a second verb to the whole kit. That's why you don't totally disagree with what I suggested. Tell you what, though. How about we post some stuff to the mp3 clinic - I'll do a mix of mine with drums, and you do the same. You do good mixes, and I'm learning how to do good mixes, so it might be instructive. (I tried to get one of the pros here to check out my mixes, but he jammed out. Don't be shy.)
 
dobro said:
Separate each element of the kit, so that you can EQ each element
Click to expand...

That's what tuning the kit does.

...so that you can pan each element where you want it
Click to expand...

It's a kit...the panning is preditermined by it, unless you're doing some techno/electronic music.

and so that you can apply different reverb to each element
Click to expand...

Again, it's a kit...usually played as a whole in one room. Maybe only the snare might get a pinch more reverb.
 
miroslav said:
That's what tuning the kit does.
Click to expand...

Sure. And it's a mix, and you have to deal with the relationship between the kick and bass, for instance, and sometimes you want to bring out the snare a bit. That's why we often put more than a stereo pair of mics on the kit, so that we can adjust the sound of each element of the kit.


miroslav said:
It's a kit...the panning is preditermined by it, unless you're doing some techno/electronic music.
Click to expand...

I try to make the kit sound as if it were a kit onstage most times. But sometimes I'll pan left and right overheads differently. But I can do that cuz I have left and right overheads to pan lol.

miroslav said:
Again, it's a kit...usually played as a whole in one room. Maybe only the snare might get a pinch more reverb.
Click to expand...

Maybe different mixes require different drum sounds. Pop is idiosyncratic. Blues and rock are different from pop. Depends what you're aiming at.

Anyway, ask how many people record their drumkits with only a couple of mics, and then ask the ones who put a mic on each part of the kit why they do that.
 
miroslav said:
That's what tuning the kit does.



It's a kit...the panning is preditermined by it, unless you're doing some techno/electronic music.



Again, it's a kit...usually played as a whole in one room. Maybe only the snare might get a pinch more reverb.
Click to expand...

Ahhh! Good thought... Which I didn't think of. Thanks! I like to play around with effects of course, but I am after a realistic sounding drumkit here.

Hmmm... Dobro makes sense as well... Maybe I've found an efficient way, with one or two drums running through sends, into a reverb channel? They pick up the reverb from both, so the second reverb (and dare I say it a phaser on the vibro) are secondary to the main drum sound.

I think I'm getting the hang of this. Any more tips?

Dr. V
 
I don't think it's a good idea to get bogged down in dogma when it comes to making records.

I'll pan the toms to where they sound good. My aim is to make an exciting mix that people want to listen to, not to make a purist representation of the kit in the room.

I find Panning the toms across the stereo field can really help make a rock track come alive. Of course a kit in a room wouldn't sound like that but then rock records don't generally sound like a band playing in a room.
 
dobro said:
the reason for running the whole kit through a submix is so that you can apply a second verb to the whole kit.
Click to expand...

Seperate verb on each drum piece, and then put the whole kit through another verb afterwards?

I've never tried that, because I imagine it would be a horrible sounding reverb overkill, so I can't be sure, but I imagine it would be a horrible sounding reverb overkill.

Just my 2cents.

Personally I, much like with anything, only put reverb on stuff I think needs reverb. This whole thing is like a "what shall I do as a matter of course" thing. And I have strong reservations about doing anything as a mtter of course beyond putting everything to zero and just listening to decide what's needed. Anyway, I'm digressing so I'll stop here.
 
dobro said:
Sure. And it's a mix, and you have to deal with the relationship between the kick and bass, for instance, and sometimes you want to bring out the snare a bit. That's why we often put more than a stereo pair of mics on the kit, so that we can adjust the sound of each element of the kit.




I try to make the kit sound as if it were a kit onstage most times. But sometimes I'll pan left and right overheads differently. But I can do that cuz I have left and right overheads to pan lol.



Maybe different mixes require different drum sounds. Pop is idiosyncratic. Blues and rock are different from pop. Depends what you're aiming at.

Anyway, ask how many people record their drumkits with only a couple of mics, and then ask the ones who put a mic on each part of the kit why they do that.
Click to expand...

Yeah...been there done that...but I've found that a pair of M/S overheads and just spot mics on Kick and Snare give me a great sound, and all the flexibility I need for most Pop/Rock/Country/Blues music.

Sure...you may want the HH waaaaaaay over on the left or the Toms split up in strange positions (or something like that) but I go for a "realist" mix in most cases, and I think lots of times if your drum kit isn't working for you to begin with, that's when you need to individual fix-in-the-mix every element of the kit.
Not all....but some guys (and most newbies) put up LOTS of mics up mainly 'cuz they need that safety net...which is OK...I'm just saying that you can get a great drum sound with a basic stereo kit setup.

I found lots of mics to be more of a hindrance than a benefit to getting a good drum sound…but a lot depends on the kit and the room. I initially spent quite a bit of time getting my studio kit set up…tuning, position, different mic setups…and I kept stripping it down until I got to my current minimalist setup which works great....and mind you, my studio kit is rather large!
I have an 11-piece drum kit, not a small 5-piece kit...and I still do it with the M/S pair and two spot mics.
My drummer wets himself every time he plays/records my studio kit. ;)

*****

Oh...and since you are the Mod around here...can you explain how I can get the original quotes that you made of my post along with YOUR quotes when I do a reply???
As you can see in this post...all of the quotes you did of my post…are missing.
I hit the stupid little "multi-quote" button in the thread next to the quote button...but I have not been able to figure out how to do it on these forums???
I end up having to do a LOT of cut/paste into Word when I want to do that...a real PITA!!! :mad::D
 
There's nothing wrong with miking everything if you have the inputs and equipment. If you don't need it, simply don't use it. The whole snobbish notion of "you should be able to get everything in just stereo overheads" is very limiting - especially with home-recording. Most people don't have an acoustically superior live room where they can just use room mics.

Frankly, I'd like to hear this 11-pc superkit in a dense rock mix using only 4 mics.
 
So...if you say you prefer a minimalist mic setup on a drum kit...you're a snob? :confused:


I say...try it as many ways as possible, (I didn't begin with a minimalist setup)...and I bet if you spend the time and work it you will be able to remove some extra mics.
Oh...my room is not some huge million dollar space. It's actually "small" by most pro-studio standards, with a rather low ceiling.
Like I said...it took a bit of time and effort to get to the minimalist setup.


And since you asked...you will be able to hear my stereo kit and a lot of other things very shortly.
My CD album is at Discmakers as we speak...getting replicated! :cool:
I should have something back in 2-3 weeks.
It will be available via CD baby, and I should have some online outlets as well, for downloadable sales. :)
 
Whoa, I just checked the link in your sig.

Sorry miroslav, but those drums are out of phase, weak, and the kick is barely audible. If you like it like that, rock on, but if those clips on your website are an example of your drum tracking techniques, you need to stop giving drum advice.


If yall wanna hear a GOOD example of minimal mic setup on drums, check out Rami's stuff. He uses 4 mics. Kick, sometimes a snare, and 2 overheads. You'd swear his toms are mic'd, but they aint. He gets a fantastic image from his overheads.
 
Greg_L said:
Whoa, I just checked the link in your sig.

Sorry miroslav, but those drums are out of phase, weak, and the kick is barely audible. If you like it like that, rock on, but if those clips on your website are an example of your drum tracking techniques, you need to stop giving drum advice.


If yall wanna hear a GOOD example of minimal mic setup on drums, check out Rami's stuff. He uses 4 mics. Kick, sometimes a snare, and 2 overheads. You'd swear his toms are mic'd, but they aint. He gets a fantastic image from his overheads.
Click to expand...
Good post. It's easy to talk like an expert (not singling out miroslav here) but the results of a person's recording work tell more.
 
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