how to make digital sound like analog?

  • Thread starter Thread starter chippedeggtooth
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chippedeggtooth -

Here's how I connected a small Behringer to my sound card (when I had one):

Main Out -> Computer Line In
Control Room -> Speakers
Computer LIne Out -> 2-Track In

Make sure that 2-Track to Control is active, and not 2-Track to Main Mix. That way, you will hear the computer playback, and it won't be recorded.
On the bigger Behringers (Like the 1604 I have now) you have the Alt 3-4 outputs, which makes life easier all together.

Oren
 
Aren said:
chippedeggtooth -

Here's how I connected a small Behringer to my sound card (when I had one):

Main Out -> Computer Line In
Control Room -> Speakers
Computer LIne Out -> 2-Track In

Make sure that 2-Track to Control is active, and not 2-Track to Main Mix. That way, you will hear the computer playback, and it won't be recorded.
Oren
Click to expand...

Aren-- I just tried this, exactly how you say, but I get no sound coming from the computer to the mixer.

I don't understand your second paragraph, "make sure that 2-track to Control is active, and not 2 track to main mix." My 2 track in is coming from the computer, so how would it be control or main mix? My contol room is going to speakers and my main out is going to computer in, like you said.

C7sus-- Thanks again, and thanks for encouraging me...good advice when you say "get all the bugs worked out and understand the software and rest of your rig BEFORE YOU DROP MORE BREAD INTO IT!" To tell you the truth, I started out saving up to get a pocketstudio, (either PXR4 or pocketstudio 5), but the more I researched it, the more I've decided I think I'm going to wait until they iron out the technology (more memory, longer battery power, better compatibility with cubasis, 24 bit) before I drop some very hard earned bread (that I shouldn't even be spendng) into something that isn't directly necessary (though AMAZING possibilities for capturing creativity, working on songs)

I'm not home alone much (with a full time job, 3 hours of commuting and a 3 year old son) so I don't get a chance to work on my music as much as I'd like, that's why I wanted to take a pocket studio with me whereever I go (on the bus commute to Seattle... I mean that one really big iceberg) but I need to be thinking LONG TERM here, the main thing is to get myself professional quality...

Yet again, thanks so much for the support, all of you.

Chip
 
in the land of tacoma aroma... I mean... milk and honey
 
Chip -

Right near the Control Room volume control, you have these little black buttons. One says "2TK to Main Mix" and the other "2TK to Control Room". You should makwe sure that 2TK to Control Room is active, and not the other one. Also make sure that the Phnoes/Control Room volume is set propperly (right in the middle is what I usually use).

Oren
 
chipped... I can adjust the output by adjusting the output levels in the computer... I don't have to lower the input to do that...

quite frankly, I don't think it's the "right" way to do it... but right now, I can switch back and forth between my headphones and speakers by just popping one out and plugging the other in, and it sounds great, so I'm not complaining... I'm sure someday I'll learn how I'm "supposed" to do it... :p

WATYF
 
never made it to wintergrass, did go to Doc Watson's 3 day bluegrass fest in appalachians, now there's some deeprooted music tradition and respect...hundreds of people camping, jamming till sunrise in the forest with their mandolins, banjos, upright basses, ect... ah the memories of freedom... but you see, I was too wild and crazy back then to commit to putting together a good DAW, so it all works out in the end....

so back to business: before I start worrying about tape saturation,ect, any suggestions on just getting the basic fundamentals? I've got the mixer, the soundcard and the software, what i dont have monitor speakers or decent headphones or a decent mic (I've got a $20 Peavy mic). I've read that monitoring with speakers is better than headphones BUT one important factor is that I'll be doing a lot of my work when everyone's asleep, so headphones would be nice... got a budget of about $400 that will have to last me for quite a while
 
I've got Sony Studio Monitor Headphones... (fitting name, eh?) :p And I like em... I use em while I record. only 99 bucks, I think. And there are supposedly all sorts of condensor mics out right now that go for 150-300 that are supposed to be good. (though I question that) :p Just head on over to the "Mic Forum" to find out more..but beware... they'll eat you alive over in the mic forum if you're not careful... :p but if you don't wanna mess around with those Chinese condensors, you can always just get the ol' standby, the Shure SM58. That's what I've got.. it's OK... I'm sure someday I'll break down and spend 500+ bucks on a mic.. but until then.. I'm fine.

WATYF
 
Chip,
I don't know what to tell ya man, except, that if you're not getting the sound you want, don't just start twisting knobs and turning dials, and running what you've done through an arsenal of processors and plug-ins to try and force something out of your computer that you think sounds right.

Examine your sound at the source first. Look over your recording environment. Does it sound good in that room? Your daw is bound to pick up more detail (wanted and un-wanted) than your older tape recorder ever could. Work to get the sound as close as you can to "perfect" before you apply any outside processing.

Listen to some of your fav mixes through your recording software/set-up. Get to know your system really well, remember your comming off an analogue tape to digital audio, it's bound to sound different. What you are hearing as a "lack of warmth" may be an increase in definition, and you'll need to acclimate yourself to it.

~Michael~
 
chippedeggtooth said:
pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean? that I shouldnt get too close to zero on the mixer? does that affect how close to zero it is on the Cubasis levels and the soundcard levels?..
Click to expand...

Headroom is how much signal you can have before it starts to compress or clip. I find the little 802A starts to suffer from a cardboard-like sound when confronted with signals that have lots of transients (high, sharp peaks) like drums and bass. The signal is actually peaking much higher than what the meters on the mixer show. The levels on the 802 and the input on my Mac are pretty close but not exact. The level in the computer is slightly lower than what the mixer reads. This is good to avoid clipping/distortion.

I run from the tape out on the mixer to the computer and use a separate amp and speakers on the output from the computer to monitor. The only thing I record direct is bass and even then it's a line out from an amp so I don't need to monitor what I'm tracking from the mixer. I just hook my 'phones up to my computer amp and leave 'em partway off my ears to hear what I'm tracking. Crude but it works.


But I know it's a learning process I shouldn't give up on too soon, everyone who has responded to this forum has showed me that, it is encouraging to see so much support, yet daunting: hold me to it, guys: when the double/quadruple album comes out, you're all getting a signed copy.
Click to expand...

You never stop learning when it comes to recording. The basic rule is if you find yourself using lots of EQ on your tracks you probably need to re-think your mic choice and placement. Don't worry about being intimidated by Cubasis. Like c7sus said there's a hell of a lot to learn in there. Concentrate on the basics for now and the rest will come with experience.

BTW be very wary of anyone who puts a recording contract in front of you. I've been offered a couple but upon closer inspection decided not to sign. That's why I work a day job and record in my spare time. ;)
 
Couldn't have said it better myself (that's probably why I didn't).

The last thing I've got to worry about is any contracts, that's the least of my worries, I think I've got my integrity in the right place (and too many other things going on anyways). I'm always working on my songs in my head and eventually they will translate to the recorded page. It is actually better not to be discovered to soon... just look at all the great first albums in the history of music then... where are they now?

I am not surrounded by any artistists or musicians in my day to day life (the one guy at work who plays guitar just wants to get famous), so it's nice to talk/type to others in the same boat. If I may, I'd like to take this opportunity to quote Randy Newman:

"Listen--it's a dangerous time now for songwriters in that a monkey can make a thing sound good now (except chippedeggtooth). I can take a drum machine and it sounds fine. But it's just hard putting content into it. You know what I mean? It's like, things sound better than they ever have (except chippedeggtooth). But I don't know whether there's more content in stuff...."

Yeah, me and Randy go way back, but he can't figure out why I can't figure out such a simple thing as a DAW... I mean he's got this pet chimp who can run Cubase in his sleep
 
Here is how I have my MX602A setup:

Main out to sound card ins.
Soundcard outs to tape in.
Control room outs to speakers.
2track to control room button engaged.
2track to mix button NOT engaged.

Control volume to speaker with PHONES/control room volume (and volume level at monitors/amplifier).

When tracking I plug headphone into phones jack on the board and turn my monitor level to zero at the monitors.

Hope this helps,

Jay
 
You guys really kick DAW ass

Not to boost your egos TOO much, but this DAW sounds so much better now that I have the mixer ins and outs figured out. (The idiots at the guitar shop who told me to use the aux in's and outs on my mixer should be fired.)

I almost gave up on digital recording altogether thinking that it was the "digital sound" i was hearing, but really it must be that I was re-recording the playback again, making it hollow and metallic.

So of course there's just one more thing (and then I'm off to go hang out in the Cubase forum): There is a low buzzing sound, which I'm wondering if it is just picking up the innards of the computer buzzing? With the levels up recording you can't really hear it, but when it's quiet you can. I have the "control out" button pushed, as I was instructed. All of the ins and outs are just like I was instructed by Retro and Aren.

Chip
 
I have my mixer on the desk about 1' away from my 17" CRT. I don't have any hum but I spent an afternoon one day solving ground problems ( like there weren't any :eek: ) in this 70 year-old house. Ground loops can be quite frustrating. I did a Google search on the subject and came up with some good info.
 
Glad I could help Chip. Your hum can come from many sources.
Make sure all your gear is hooked up to the same electric socket, to prevent ground loops. Also, if you're playing electric guitar, try moving away from your compter monitor. Don't forget to check your cables regularly, because old cables can be the number 1 source of noise in your studio.

Enjoy!

Oren
 
The epic concept album is underway!!!! The sound is great. I really appreciate all your help everyone. My only peeve now is that because I don't do "2 Track to Main Mix" I can't hear the track I'm recording while I'm recordiign. This means I can't record bass or electric guitar directly into the mixer. Is there any way around this without buying more crap? Thanks

Chip
 
The epic concept album is underway!!!! The sound is great. I really appreciate all your help everyone. My only peeve now is that because I don't do "2 Track to Main Mix" I can't hear the track I'm recording while I'm recordiign. This means I can't record bass or electric guitar directly into the mixer. Is there any way around this without buying more crap? Thanks

Chip
 
Good to see your on the right track. :cool:

You could get a small line mixer to set up a headphone mix or get a better mixer for tracking and use the Behringer for monitoring. That's why I bought mine, just haven't been able to afford a better one yet.
 
chippedeggtooth said:
The epic concept album is underway!!!! The sound is great. I really appreciate all your help everyone. My only peeve now is that because I don't do "2 Track to Main Mix" I can't hear the track I'm recording while I'm recordiign. This means I can't record bass or electric guitar directly into the mixer. Is there any way around this without buying more crap? Thanks

Chip
Click to expand...

If I understand this right, you can't hear what you are playing while you are recording it, but can hear the tracks you already have recorded?

Unless I'm wrong, this should be a software setting in your computer, either in your soundcard's mixer program or in the program you are using to record. There should be a way for you to set it so you can "monitor" the signal being recorded along with the other stuff.

If there is no such setting, the only other cheap way I can think of for doing this would be to set up the playback tracks from the sound card so they play back in mono (or in stereo, but with the same signal to both sides). Run one cable from the sound card to the left side of the 2-track return (making sure that 2-track to control room is enabled). Then run a cable from the mixer's aux send to the right side of the two track return. Adjust the aux send on the mixer channel you are playing on to suit. You should end up with the playback tracks in the left side of your headphones and the track you are recording in the right side. It might sound weird, but you would hear them both.

As far as the low-level hum goes, lots of things could cause this but a likely candidate is your computer monitor. They can cause all kinds of interference. Might be best to turn it off while recording.

Hope this helps,

OB
 
I don't understand why you can't hear what you are tracking because of the 2 track settings. That should just make sure that your recorded tracks aren't looped back into the computer.

Do you have your instruments coming in on the regular channel inputs?
 
TexRoadkill said:
I don't understand why you can't hear what you are tracking because of the 2 track settings. That should just make sure that your recorded tracks aren't looped back into the computer.

Do you have your instruments coming in on the regular channel inputs?
Click to expand...

I agree that it doesn't sound like the outboard mixer could have anything to do with it. I really think he's got the soundcard's mixing program set to where it's not delivering the signal at the inputs to the outputs for monitoring. The card's gotta be full duplex if he can hear the output while recording, so it must be able to do this. I think he must have a checkbox unchecked somewhere or something.
 
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