how to keep bass track from interfering with piano track?

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jonas5000

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i use logic 8 to mix and i'm having trouble with my bass part muddying up my piano part. how do i create more space between the bass and the piano, so that the bass sounds like it's sitting at the very bottom of the mix? please help me.
 
You've got to determine at what frequencies the bass and piano are stepping on each other. Then you need to notch that frequency range out on one. If it's real low--a frequency you want the bass to cover--you'd notch it out of the piano. It it's higher--and you want the piano to cover it--you'd notch it out of the bass.
 
& if you don't like notchos try potato chips!
YEP, WS & LB are spot on the money. It's the same as the basic problem with matter transfer &/or time travel: two things can't successfully occupy the same 3Ds unless you've fiddled with the 4th D, and even then it's only a matter of time! You're better off working out which does a better job in the space & removing some of that space from the less successful occupant. It's a Darwinian approach to mixing that was very successful for an Australia Jazz ensemble named Galapogos Duck. The Beagle Boys have also done well with it over at Island Records. Remember: evolution is the ultimate form of self determination.
Doing it by ear is the best way but if, like me, your hearing is damaged or you're simply not able to discriminate well enough (actually both apply to me), use a freq. chart or two to help point to the areas of concern.
 
As a bassist, I'd say it's normally the other way round - the piano muddying the bass. Seriously though, that is worth thinking about. In context of a band it's the bass that should be providing the bottom-end, not the piano, so it's reasonable (perhaps even "required") to roll off the bass frequencies on the piano. Apart from that... what WhiteStrat said :)
 
its about time the beagle boys got the credit they deserve.
 
thanks for the replies. i realized that they needed to occupy different frequencies, but i had a hard time separating the two since i like my piano not so bright, but a little more muddy. i'll see if i can make a compromise somewhere.
 
if you like a good amount of low end on your piano, notch out the low end a couple db's on the bass, and push up the midrange a tad...

that, and try to separate them with panning. if the piano is recorded in stereo, send it out wide L/R while leaving the bass down the middle
 
another technique i'm trying to figure out is how to make my bass sit "low" in the mix. in other words, imagine that in the center of the mix there exists a vertical scale with a top, middle, and bottom. my vocals tend to sit in the "middle" of the scale as does my bass. i would like the bass to sit at bottom of the scale so that it seems vertically separate from the vocals. i've noticed this effect on most records. let me know if i'm speaking chinese here.
 
Hai guys

If it's really low of frequency then you want the bass to cover and you would notch it out of the piano.This kind of problems happens often with me..
 
Make a copy of the bass track. On one of your bass tracks, low pass filter it so all you hear is the low end. On the other, high pass filter it so you hear only the brightness, string noise, etc. Bring up the high pass filtered track just enough for presence but not enough so that it interferes with the vocals.
 
I think the last one means SCOOP the middle out of the EQ it'll sound like the Stranglers' Bassist JJ Brunel.
 
fuzzrhythm said:
Make a copy of the bass track. On one of your bass tracks, low pass filter it so all you hear is the low end. On the other, high pass filter it so you hear only the brightness, string noise, etc. Bring up the high pass filtered track just enough for presence but not enough so that it interferes with the vocals.
Click to expand...

Oh-oh....Here we go again. We've been through this before. Ugh!

Making a copy of your bass track does nothing but make it louder. Eq'ing one one way and the other track another way does absolutely nothing that couldn't have been done by turning up ONE bass track and putting the same EQ and/or filter on it.

There should be a sticky informing people that doubling a track does absolutely nothing but make it louder.
 
Keep in mind that it could be the piano player's note/voicing choices.

I recently played a jazz gig with a piano player who usually plays solo piano gigs. Her left hand was in my way all night. I wanted to chop it off. She was used to filling out the low end.

I'll bet you good money the recording has nothing to do with the real problem.
 
RAMI said:
Oh-oh....Here we go again. We've been through this before. Ugh!

Making a copy of your bass track does nothing but make it louder. Eq'ing one one way and the other track another way does absolutely nothing that couldn't have been done by turning up ONE bass track and putting the same EQ and/or filter on it.

There should be a sticky informing people that doubling a track does absolutely nothing but make it louder.
Click to expand...

Hang in there, Champ! (And take your blood pressure pills!) :D
 
Every time the bass gets too loud throw some slap on him, upside da head.
 
leddy said:
I wanted to chop it off.
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ding ding ding ding ding! we have a winner! the correct answer to the original question is "chop the piano players left hand off!!"

*applause*

Thanks for playing! Chuck... what do we have for the winner? Lookee here...a brand new set of... kitchen knives!

i don't know...i just went with it...forgive me.

Mike
 
bigtoe said:
ding ding ding ding ding! we have a winner! the correct answer to the original question is "chop the piano players left hand off!!"

*applause*

Thanks for playing! Chuck... what do we have for the winner? Lookee here...a brand new set of... kitchen knives!

i don't know...i just went with it...forgive me.

Mike
Click to expand...
There have been soooo many times I've wanted to take the keyboardist's left hand and crush it with a brick! They either steal my lines or play the line that their theory training tells them I should be playing (normally in blissful ignorance of the bass's role as a RHYTHM instrument).
 
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