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RAMI
Guest
I like Bob too. 
Seafroggys
Well-known member
If I was on a 'tour' I wouldn't mind doing 7 nights a week, but all the time? THat's a bit too much. Maybe 3 nights a week at most.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
of course I didn't take offense .... why would I? And greg and I are buds ..... he never offends.Lol. What? Boob knows that I mean no disrespect. Me and him's buddies. He knows very well what I deal with with my two bands.
Different perspectives and all that.
And no, I don't consider weekends to be full time .... that's MY perspective.
If I only played weekends I'd be freaking out.
NONE of you guys really do this for a living like I do. If you managed to pay your bills with weekend gigs that would be before you had things like a mortgage since there's not enough money in only weekend gigs to pay for a mortgage/health insurance etc.
But this thread is about different personal points of view on this subject ..... why would I be offended by different opinions ..... while I'm at it .... why was RAMI offended by me having a different point of view?
Look guys ..... I've done approximately 15,000 gigs ..... that's paying gigs and it's not an exaggerated number.... doesn't include jamming or rehearsals ....... do you really think we have the same perspective on this?
To me and other guys that actually pay for our homes with this, weekend warriors are part timers.
They either do it when they're young and don't have significant bills or they do it like Greg does ..... strictly for fun and a little extra money.
And that's great ...... don't think there aren't times when I envy that .... but like any other job , it's not full time until you're working 40 hours or so.
And unfortunately for me the winter here in America's wang is a time when it's hard to get more than 4, sometimes 5 gigs a week.
That makes me a part-timer right now and my bank account doesn't like it.
Try not to get offended..
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RAMI
Guest
Hehe...Nice try Bob. Rami wasn't offended. He just responded to your comment about playing weekends not considered as "gigging". (and good edit, brother) I never said playing weekends was full time, I said it was definitely gigging, especially when you're doing it 50 weeks a year. And when I say I made a great living just playing weekends, I mean I most definitely could have pid a mortgage, but I lived in an apartment (which cost me as much rent as a mortgage on a small house would have cost me). Like I said, I was making more money playing 3 nights a week as many people made at their 40 hour a week job. How do you know I couldn't have paid a mortgage? Do you know how much money I was making?
Funny thing is, I made more money playing 3 nights a week than I did when I was playing 6 nights a week, because 6 nights a week was with a touring 5 piece band with a big budget, including sound man, light man, and one roadie. The 3 night a week gig was with a trio that hardly had any expenses and getting paid great money. $2000, minus the $200 that the keyboard player took for the P.A. makes $1800 divided by 3 guys. I don't know about you, but where I come from, putting $600 a week cash and tax free in your pocket is pretty good money. I hope that doesn't offend anyone.
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I agree...playing less than 7 days a week is still considered "gigging" if you do it on some regular basis.
No one is offended that you do it as a job, Bob...but there are many ways to be involved with music on a full-time basis without having to gig 7 days per week....that's all.
From my perspective....if I spend 8 hours recording something or writting a song or even just dealing with some studio maintenance issues, it's still all about the same thing....music...so with in mind, I've been involved with music full-time since the mid-'70s.
No one is offended that you do it as a job, Bob...but there are many ways to be involved with music on a full-time basis without having to gig 7 days per week....that's all.
From my perspective....if I spend 8 hours recording something or writting a song or even just dealing with some studio maintenance issues, it's still all about the same thing....music...so with in mind, I've been involved with music full-time since the mid-'70s.
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Greg_L
Banned
Right. I didn't think you would be offended by anything I personally said, but then Rami said "here we go" and I was like "wait, did I say something bad?" Cuz you know, usually I do say something bad.
I have a gig tomorrow night. Great venue, gonna be a big crowd, a ton of our own people, I couldn't be any less excited.
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dreib
Active member
I'd rather shoot myself in the face than play 5 nights a week in some shit club(s) , playing cover songs. I did it when I was young and I realized then that playing originals is what I really wanted. So I played even shittier clubs and did that for 6 more years.
I remember playing in Memphis, the bar had a "band house", I was laying in the bottom rack of a bunk bed and carved into the wood, along with a bunch of other vulgar/funny stuff was this sentence. " what am I doing with my life?"
To me that was the funniest thing I had ever read in the many places I had played because I thought that very thought each time before I got into that god awful, smelly piece of shit, van.
Looking back though I wouldn't change a thing, it was never about money for me , I did it for free because I loved it, and hated it.
I remember playing in Memphis, the bar had a "band house", I was laying in the bottom rack of a bunk bed and carved into the wood, along with a bunch of other vulgar/funny stuff was this sentence. " what am I doing with my life?"
To me that was the funniest thing I had ever read in the many places I had played because I thought that very thought each time before I got into that god awful, smelly piece of shit, van.
Looking back though I wouldn't change a thing, it was never about money for me , I did it for free because I loved it, and hated it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
X
Xdrummer
New member
I think Bob has a valid point - that a musician who must depend on gigs to pay the bills has a different point of view than someone who has a day job and only records as a hobby, or even someone who plays weekends.
I do believe a gig is a gig - however, I tend to draw a line between a full time musician, a gigging musician and a hobbiest. I feel if someone is not gigging at least 2-3 gigs per week (let's say at least 125 gigs a year) - then they are a hobbiest. They may be a very talented and dedicated musician - but they are a world away from a full time musician and at least a full miles away from a serious "gigging musician"
I was a full time, traveling musican for 7 years (actually 6 - and then 1 year full time playing the Vegas/Tahoe circuit). I did not enjoy it. Certainly performing the music was great (at least most of it) and I did have opportunity to work with some very good musicians - and unfortunately more than a few complete a-holes ........... but the grind really got to me and the "pressure" to constantly find gigs or starve was not a sane way to live.
I came off the road and played 5-6 nights a weeks locally (back when clubs offered that kind of work) and made better money than on the road - and even worked in a couple of bands in which working 3 nights a week paid better than full time on the road. I now play maybe 30 gigs a year, maybe earn $2,000-$3,000 a year (enough to upgrade certain pieces of gear) - and no longer consider myself a "gigging musician" - but gigging less does give me time to write/record - so it's a fair trade off ..... for me. But - my opinion and approach to music is naturally much fidderent than someone like Bob.
I've lost track but I know I've done at least 3,000-4,000 gigs ........... but that still does not come close to Bob - and accordingly, my view on this subject (or any musical subject) will be shaped differently than Bob.
I very much respect anyone who can successfully support themselves fully through music ........ but I do not envie them ......... working a "real" day job can wear you down - but the challenges of trying to make a living in music (at least a relatively decent living) require more talent and committment than I can manage.
I do believe a gig is a gig - however, I tend to draw a line between a full time musician, a gigging musician and a hobbiest. I feel if someone is not gigging at least 2-3 gigs per week (let's say at least 125 gigs a year) - then they are a hobbiest. They may be a very talented and dedicated musician - but they are a world away from a full time musician and at least a full miles away from a serious "gigging musician"
I was a full time, traveling musican for 7 years (actually 6 - and then 1 year full time playing the Vegas/Tahoe circuit). I did not enjoy it. Certainly performing the music was great (at least most of it) and I did have opportunity to work with some very good musicians - and unfortunately more than a few complete a-holes ........... but the grind really got to me and the "pressure" to constantly find gigs or starve was not a sane way to live.
I came off the road and played 5-6 nights a weeks locally (back when clubs offered that kind of work) and made better money than on the road - and even worked in a couple of bands in which working 3 nights a week paid better than full time on the road. I now play maybe 30 gigs a year, maybe earn $2,000-$3,000 a year (enough to upgrade certain pieces of gear) - and no longer consider myself a "gigging musician" - but gigging less does give me time to write/record - so it's a fair trade off ..... for me. But - my opinion and approach to music is naturally much fidderent than someone like Bob.
I've lost track but I know I've done at least 3,000-4,000 gigs ........... but that still does not come close to Bob - and accordingly, my view on this subject (or any musical subject) will be shaped differently than Bob.
I very much respect anyone who can successfully support themselves fully through music ........ but I do not envie them ......... working a "real" day job can wear you down - but the challenges of trying to make a living in music (at least a relatively decent living) require more talent and committment than I can manage.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Mmmmmm....since when did being a full time "musician" mean that unless you do it as a full-time "job", you are not a full-time "musician"...huh?
I find the guys who do it purely as a hobby, but on a full-time/life-time basis, are more about the "music" than when you simply bang out covers 7-days a week to get a paycheck...and I don't mean any offense to guys like Bob who do play for a "living", heck it's a better way to make a living than a lot of real shit jobs people do, but let's define what we are talking about here --- doing a job by playing music VS doing music for the sake of music (even if you never get paid for it).
And I totally agree...when you have to play for pay...it IS a totally different perspective than when you play to play, regardless of pay.
I use to play for pay a long time ago, and could have done the gigging-for-life thing easy enough, but as I said earlier in this thread, that was more of a grind than about "music" for me, and I wanted to just do music without the "as a job" perspective.
<EDIT>
Oh....just be clear....it's not only about the guys who bang out covers 7-days per week. Heck, if I was in my own band, doing nothing but originals, I would still find it a grind to gig out that much. A few times a month would be enough for gigs, but making music would still be a full-time thing when combined with writting, recording and playing.
I find the guys who do it purely as a hobby, but on a full-time/life-time basis, are more about the "music" than when you simply bang out covers 7-days a week to get a paycheck...and I don't mean any offense to guys like Bob who do play for a "living", heck it's a better way to make a living than a lot of real shit jobs people do, but let's define what we are talking about here --- doing a job by playing music VS doing music for the sake of music (even if you never get paid for it).
And I totally agree...when you have to play for pay...it IS a totally different perspective than when you play to play, regardless of pay.
I use to play for pay a long time ago, and could have done the gigging-for-life thing easy enough, but as I said earlier in this thread, that was more of a grind than about "music" for me, and I wanted to just do music without the "as a job" perspective.
<EDIT>
Oh....just be clear....it's not only about the guys who bang out covers 7-days per week. Heck, if I was in my own band, doing nothing but originals, I would still find it a grind to gig out that much. A few times a month would be enough for gigs, but making music would still be a full-time thing when combined with writting, recording and playing.
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RAMI
Guest
Right. But not everyone that plays on weekends needs a day job to pay the bills. Or, I should say, that's how it used to be for me. Now, there are pretty much no gigs around here.
Like I said, I was playing 50 weeks a year, making better money than when I was playing 6 days a week, because we were smart about it. I was certainly no hobbyist, I was a working musician who paid his bills by playing in a great paying band that only played Thursday to Saturday. Funny how some people seem to have trouble believing that. Maybe the scene was different here than it was in the States during those times. But to say that I wasn't gigging is just plain ignorant and un-informed. Making assumptions about how much money I was or wasn't making is just plain stupid.
Nobody's trying to compete with Bob. Believe me, he can have his 7 nights a week gig. I certainly don't envy that.
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RAMI
Guest
The "here we go" wasn't really directed at your post. It was a result of what you said about gigging that often and what Miro said. And I was joking around anyway. I tend to do that, in case nobody has ever noticed.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I knew you were joking....
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Greg_L
Banned
I'm still not seeing where all this went haywire.
Me personally, it's pretty simple really. I couldn't care less about gigs, who gigs how much, or how many gigs a week it takes to be a "musician". Gigs don't mean shit to me. I put no magical value on playing a gig. I put no value on being a "musician". Nine times out of ten a gig is a fucking hassle and there's always something else I'd rather be doing. I'm jaded as hell and for good reason. Gigs suck. And this is me in two original material bands. If that attitude makes me a poser hobbyist, then awesome. I know I'm in the minority when it comes to gigs. My bandmates get all hyped up for gigs. I'm like, whatever. Not a single fuck is given. I enjoy playing music with the fellas. I enjoy writing music. I enjoy taking a riff or an idea and ass-fucking fucking that bitch until it becomes a song. Then just like blowing a load, it's done. I don't get any satisfaction out of taking my freshly fucked bitch out live. I only do it because that's just part of being in a band. Gigs are a necessary evil.
Me personally, it's pretty simple really. I couldn't care less about gigs, who gigs how much, or how many gigs a week it takes to be a "musician". Gigs don't mean shit to me. I put no magical value on playing a gig. I put no value on being a "musician". Nine times out of ten a gig is a fucking hassle and there's always something else I'd rather be doing. I'm jaded as hell and for good reason. Gigs suck. And this is me in two original material bands. If that attitude makes me a poser hobbyist, then awesome. I know I'm in the minority when it comes to gigs. My bandmates get all hyped up for gigs. I'm like, whatever. Not a single fuck is given. I enjoy playing music with the fellas. I enjoy writing music. I enjoy taking a riff or an idea and ass-fucking fucking that bitch until it becomes a song. Then just like blowing a load, it's done. I don't get any satisfaction out of taking my freshly fucked bitch out live. I only do it because that's just part of being in a band. Gigs are a necessary evil.
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RAMI
Guest
I don't really think it went haywire. Bob decided that you're not really "gigging" unless you're on stage 7 days a week. I just happened to disagree with that by using the example that I made more money in a band that played 3 nights a week than I did in a touring band that played 6 nights a week. No big woop.
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Greg_L
Banned
I see. If that's the case, then pretty much no one is "gigging". Even touring bands ranging from sweaty guys crammed in a barely running van to Iron Maiden flying around on their own 747 don't play every day of the week.
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
I couldn't agree with this more. This is exactly how I feel about gigs. My last band made a massive fuss about gigs. Shit! We hardly ever got a free drink for playing in all the shitty dives we played. I enjoyed the 30/40 minutes of playing live and loud but it's not much more than a total fucking ball ache having to be there, carry equipment, set up, etc.
As for songwriting/recording.....for me, it's as and when. I have 100's of songs written for me to record. I'm enjoying working my way through them. If I write a new song, and get the buzz, I record. I've had 2 months off writing/recording as my studio was packed away for a house move. A week in the new house and I still haven't set back up yet.
I'll get back to it when I find the time
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
A week in the new house and I still haven't set back up yet.
I'll get back to it when I find the time
Don't feel bad....when I moved back in '99, I had to let the studio setup go for almost a year so I could deal with getting the rest of the house move-in work that was needed (it was the longest break I took from music, but it wasn't by choice).
It will come back to you....
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RAMI
Guest
I agree with you guys (Greg and Clean). Those gigs I was talking about were in the 90's, so we're talking more than 10 years ago. Since then, the club scene has died here in Montreal. After gigging for over 20 years, I had a mental block against it to the point that when I tried doing it again just a couple of years ago, I dreaded it so much that I would literally lose sleep stressing over it the night before every gig. I just fucking hated it at the end and had to stop for my own sanity. Funny how you can love something for so long and end up hating it so much at a certain point.
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Same here.....I've made attempts at getting back to the band/gig thing at least a half-dozen times....it always sounded like a good thing to do in my heart, but after several practices with a prospective band situation, and then all that band/gig stuff starts coming back....and I just start hating it and would then walk away from it.
It's great "playing" live....everything else associated with it generally sucks, IMO.
It's great "playing" live....everything else associated with it generally sucks, IMO.