How much snare sound should come from overheads?

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skiz

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Hey guys, dunno if this should be in the drum section or mic section

i know im a noob and have a question bout drum recording

been doin some recordin at home and i cant really get my snare mic to pick up a nice fat sound and when solo'd the snare track sounds really thin. Collectively it doesnt sound too bad, as the overheads are picking up a better sound than the actual snare mic.

just wondering what you all think of this. its really irritating me because no matter what i try im just getting crap thin snare sound on my snare mic. using an Audix I-5

thanks
 
I like a decent amount of Snare in my overheads.

I try to approach drum recording as getting the whole kit in the overheads and using close mics to enhance, not to be the main sound. Just do whatever you can to make all the drum tracks sound great together
 
I haven't been recording drums for too long, so take that into account, but in my experience, the snare mic aimed at the top of the snare does not get the snap of the snares at all. It can be captured in the overheads or you can put a another mic on the bottom of the snare and flip the phase on it 180 from the mic on the top of the snare.

I am starting to think that the best solution for me is 2 overheads well placed and a kick mic.

If I could get away with just the overheads and get a good balance I might start doing that as well.

bilco
 
for me, the top snare mic is typically there to get the woody thud, which gives the snare some body in the mix

the bottom snare mic is there to pick up the snap/crack

then the OH's pick up the overall ambience of the snare...each track by itself usually sounds sort of weak/lame, but when you throw them all together, the result is a fucking sweet snare sound
 
However much sounds good...seriously...whatever sounds good is good.
 
think about it--when you listen to a snare drum, do you typically listen with your ear right next to the head/shell or do you typically listen to one from several feet (or more) away?

the sound of a snare drum takes some distance to fully blossom. therefore the bulk of the "good" sounding snare sound (and drumkit sound for that matter) will come from your overheads.

like the other folks above, i use the close mics to supplement (or augment) the sound in the overheads. depending on mic choice and placement, you can add a variety of sounds to that which you're getting from the overheads.


cheers,
wade
 
real drummers don't need snare mics

Hi,

If your drummer really works his snare you can get great drums with three mics. Most drummers don't work that hard, hence snare mics.

I use an SM57 under the hat and angled down slightly. I do get hat too but I can use it or eq it out.

Sometimes I want a little more pop in my snare. I'm on a Fostex VF160 but this same eq trick should work with anything.

On the snare track I adjust upwards at 1K 3-6 db listening for an enhanced snap. Then I sweep upwards tuning the snap. I usually find this between 1.5 and 2K. Then I will readjust the amount of eq and the volume of the snare in the mix.

Works for me.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
depends on what you are recording as well...I record a lot of heavy music...lots of distorted guitars and screaming vocals....I typically will mic every drum...you almost have to in order to have them heard in the mix....on the other hand...about 2 weeks ago, I recorded a local jazz group and only used 3 mics....2 CAD m177's over head and a beta 52 on kick and I was completely amazed at how well the drums sounded.
 
For me, it's usually somewhere in the range from "a bunch" to "pretty much all of it", depending on the sound the music needs. But that's just me. :) If I use a close snare mike, I usually have more use for a bottom snare sound with the rattle, than the top sound.

Cheers,

Otto
 
i like the combination oh/bottom of snare. the snare in the oh provides most of the body, the miked bottom gives great snappiness.
 
Did you try playing around with the position of the snare mic? Sometimes if you move it back from over the rim you can get a cool sound.:)
 
I always build the drum sound around the OH's, mixing in the close mics as needed. Kick and snare get the most close mic mixed in, by far, and I usually spend more time on the snare than any other part of the kit, both in placement, and in mixing. If a drummer is a heavy hitter on the snare, it makes it more difficult to sculpt the snare sound with the close mic(s) because there's so much snare already in the overhead. That's OK if it's already a good snare sound, but problematic if it isn't.
 
A lot of people use, and I think I read this in "mixing with your mind", the 3 to 1 ratio. meaning you have equal distance between the overhead mics as you do from each overhead to the snare. For each foot from the source equals 1 ms, so if one overhead is a foot MORE away from the snare than the other overhead, the sound will reach THAT mic 1 ms later than the other overhead. Personaly I move it till it sounds good.
 
I have been thinking about this and it's not making sense. I want to be able to pan the snare by itself but that isn't really doable when I have OH's picking it up. anyone set up OH's away from the snare? I think I want to do this.
 
Oh, I had just assumed that you were putting the snare in the center as the majority of engineers do. Panning your overheads hard L and hard R. gives your stereo effect as well as panning your tom's and hat. Normally the kick and snare are center.
 
one thing i like to do sometimes (depending on the type of project) is to duplicate my overheads to a second stereo track and gate that track using the snare track to trigger the gate. that way i can adjust the original overhead track but still get more of that OH snare sound without having to have tons of cymbals as well. plus then i can eq the snare from the overheads to my taste. doesn't always pan out but when it does, it's some beefy snare sound.
 
I like to dampen my snare with a snare ring. then it's instantly fat and less snare is picked up in the overheads and you can have more control of how much snare you want with a dedicated snare mic.

usually with an undampened snare I find that the snare is real loud in the OH when I do mono OH. Since i don't have a pair of my OH of choice, I find dampening is a good solution and I like how it sounds
 
The snare in the overheads are pretty vital in my drum mixes. Those along with a room mic give the snare a nice full sound.

I use the close mic on the top head to get a nice crack & punch, the bottom mic for a full sound, and overheads and room mic to give it the overall "full" sound.
 
It's really more of a 50-50 kinda' deal.

The overheads and close mics, by themselves, are really only giving you about half the picture.

.
 
The best use for a snare mic, imho, is to have something to process (compress, eq, gated verb, etc), in isolation from the rest of the kit. If you don't need to process the snare, AND your snare/kit sounds great to begin with, AND your drummer doesn't suck, then you don't really need a snare mic at all... any good overhead technique should work.

Now, if your drums suck, or your drummer sucks, mic technique won't save you. Get a drum machine. :p
 
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