F
frequency_
New member
a quick and easy way to make your snare sound a bit fater is to add a very small amount of delay to it, just a few miliseconds
M
Microfiction
New member
This really isn't true. It depends on what drum sound you like, the genre of music, and what is most appropriate for each individual mix. I know that I wouldn't be able to just use the snare from the OH's, and we've got a great drummer, with a good kit. Close mics provide at least 50% of the sound for me, usually.
snellular5
neil young whore
just put a dynamic on the top and the bottom but dont forget to invert the phase on the bottom one other wise they ll just cancel out
Last edited:
thajeremy
registered abuser
thats one of the dumbest things Iv ever heard....you dont need to invert the phase unless they are out of phase.....dont do it by routine....sometimes I have to invert phase....but more often I dont....
I hope my attatchment was added.....the left side of the line shows a wave in phase....if you zoom into your tracks...and they look like this...dont reverse the phase....the right side of the line is out of phase....correct it by reversing the phase or in some cases just slide the track left or right just a bit to line it up....
Attachments
eyema_believer
Bondservant
What you might try is pulling some 250Hz down. When you close mic ANYTHING with anything other than a mic with an omni polar pattern, a thing called the "proximity" effect happens. What that really means is that you end up with a bump-up in the response of the microphone at 250 Hz. You may be thinking.. "so what?" Well, for some reason, 250 Hz muddies up the sound of anything. So, you can go a long way towards getting a more "open" snare sound by pulling some of that out.
On a side note, I'm finding I really don't like the SM57 on the snare. I really don't know how it reached the "go-to" status it has for that application; probably for it's tolerance of very high SPLs. I bought a set of drum mics by CAD for $150 bucks, and I like the snare mic in that kit so much better than my SM57.
Peace!
~Shawn
On a side note, I'm finding I really don't like the SM57 on the snare. I really don't know how it reached the "go-to" status it has for that application; probably for it's tolerance of very high SPLs. I bought a set of drum mics by CAD for $150 bucks, and I like the snare mic in that kit so much better than my SM57.
Peace!
~Shawn
thajeremy
registered abuser
I dont that I would say that the sm57 really has the name of being the "Go To" mic for snare...I think that the 57 is so popular because it can be used anywhere with satisfactory results...Mic A is good here and mic B is good here, mic C is good here....thats 3 mics to have to purchase but mic "57" is OK on all of those sources....
eyema_believer
Bondservant
I think that lots and lots of people do this routinely. It's not dumb advice at all. It probably became routine way before people had computers to zoom in on, and used their ears to decide what sounded best.
thajeremy
registered abuser
I dont have a problem with someone saying "dont forget to reverse the phase on one and see if it sounds better!"
but not "and dont forget to reverse the phase on one or it will cancel out!"
big differance there man....
eyema_believer
Bondservant
Yep, one should always use one's ears whilst mixing.
Rimshot
New member
My input for what it's worth.......
When I first got all set up I was using a ton of mics. Each drum had its own dedicated mic, I had a good kick mic in the hole on the resonator head and an SM 57 on the beater, I had an upper and a lower mic on snare and overheads, a dedicated mic for the hats,and a room mic about 10 feet away from the kit. I play a six piece kit (sometimes a seven piece) and that was a whole lot of mics ( a total of 12 mics= stupid). As I got better, I found I didn't need them.
The more I listen to the old recordings of some of the jazz greats I realized that a lot of those drums were recorded with just one really well placed very good mic. (I'm not that good), but I have found if your drums are tuned well and you learn how to play for the mics and they are well placed and the room is good for your sound, I can get really great recordings with two overheads and a good kick mic. And once in a while I do use a dedicated mic on my snare, but I've found I don't need it as much as I used to.
You have to learn to play for it though
When I first got all set up I was using a ton of mics. Each drum had its own dedicated mic, I had a good kick mic in the hole on the resonator head and an SM 57 on the beater, I had an upper and a lower mic on snare and overheads, a dedicated mic for the hats,and a room mic about 10 feet away from the kit. I play a six piece kit (sometimes a seven piece) and that was a whole lot of mics ( a total of 12 mics= stupid). As I got better, I found I didn't need them.
The more I listen to the old recordings of some of the jazz greats I realized that a lot of those drums were recorded with just one really well placed very good mic. (I'm not that good), but I have found if your drums are tuned well and you learn how to play for the mics and they are well placed and the room is good for your sound, I can get really great recordings with two overheads and a good kick mic. And once in a while I do use a dedicated mic on my snare, but I've found I don't need it as much as I used to.
You have to learn to play for it though
R
robin watson
New member
Interesting, I've never heard that approach before. I'll try it some time. Thanks, something new to try.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
Yeah, jack of all trades, master of none.
Another reason the 57 is popular is that everybody already has a few for live work and miking snare has pretty much the same issues as live work. You want to cut down on bleed when miking snare, cut down on feedback when miking live. Same basic principles apply.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
Think about this for a second. As you strike a drum, you create a pressure wave. The force starts downward and then cycles up as the heads vibrate. As you strike the top head, the wave presses downward on the bottom head and they move together. You have a mic pointing downward on the top head and one pointing up on the bottom head. One mic is catching the initial pressure wave moving away from the diaphragm, the other is catching the wave coming towards the diaphragm. If the mics have the polarity of the diaphragm in the same direction, they will be out of phase with each other in respect to the wave. So general practice is to reverse the phase of the bottom mic, although it doesn't always apply. It's sort of standard operating procedure unless there are other considerations.
pandamonk
Well-known member
IronFlippy
Dedicated To My Member
For general phase considerations, yes, that's appropriate. However we're talking about miking a snare with top and bottom mics. If the diaphragms are pointed towards each other on opposite sides of the snare, you WILL 100% need to reverse the polarity on one of them to avoid cancellation. Sound pressure doesn't change the way it works every now and then to screw with us, as much as we probably think that. While I don't recommend blindly doing things without thinking about what you're doing, saying that they may not cancel just defies physics, for reasons PhilGood explained.
Unless that's the sound you're going for.
giraffe
i love negative rep
seems to me that if you're doing it right, 85% of the entire sound of the kit should come from the "over heads" and the rest of the mics are just used to fill in the sound where needed.
just because you can make it work with 2 or 3, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a few more up just in case.
just because you can make it work with 2 or 3, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a few more up just in case.
cobradenim
New member
I agree!!! Sometimes, i wish i had mics on the toms because there are times when the toms aren't present enough in the overheads. However, most of the time they are. That extra mic might just be what I need to enhance the toms a little bit.
Obi-Wan zenabI
Active member
Folks, what ThaJeremy said about phase relationships between top and bottom mic makes a ton of sense.
It seems to me that the people arguing with his point would have to imagine that the top and bottom mics are placed in exactly the same spot... like x/y mics placed facing eachother directly. But they are actually 6,7,8 inches apart. The distance between them should make it a little more complicated than an automatic inversion on every frequency, right? The waveforms might well be out of phase in some other way than exactly inverted.
Imagine water waves started at eachother-- if their phases line up, there will be big harmonic interference as their peaks combine... but if the point of generation varies, the degree of interference (ie their phase relationship) will change.
It seems wise to invert as standard practice to check the sound, and if you're just quickly throwing a mix together. But why not look at your wave forms to truly see how the phase is working with yout setup and adjust accordingly?
Please convince me otherwise, as I do not actually have much expericence using more than one mic on the snare.
I in fact use 2 OH's and a Kick myself. (Jazz, with a great player)
It seems to me that the people arguing with his point would have to imagine that the top and bottom mics are placed in exactly the same spot... like x/y mics placed facing eachother directly. But they are actually 6,7,8 inches apart. The distance between them should make it a little more complicated than an automatic inversion on every frequency, right? The waveforms might well be out of phase in some other way than exactly inverted.
Imagine water waves started at eachother-- if their phases line up, there will be big harmonic interference as their peaks combine... but if the point of generation varies, the degree of interference (ie their phase relationship) will change.
It seems wise to invert as standard practice to check the sound, and if you're just quickly throwing a mix together. But why not look at your wave forms to truly see how the phase is working with yout setup and adjust accordingly?
Please convince me otherwise, as I do not actually have much expericence using more than one mic on the snare.
I in fact use 2 OH's and a Kick myself. (Jazz, with a great player)