VOXVENDOR
New member
Teacher said:
Your Silly.
Oh, and you obviously know nothing about Pro Tools..
Your Silly.
Oh, and you obviously know nothing about Pro Tools..
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RWhite
Well-known member
All I know about Protools is that the "free" downloadable version was/is a piece of bug-ridden crap. My Cakewalk 9 on the other hand has done everything I need.
If the idea behind "free" Protools is to promote the product, I think they should have paid a bit more attention to it.
If the idea behind "free" Protools is to promote the product, I think they should have paid a bit more attention to it.
elevate
New member
Haven't you heard? The free Pro Tools is a joint effort by Steinberg and Emagic to undermine Digidesign.
cordura21
New member
JFogarty said:
maybe you're right. Then again, AOL ended up buying Netscape, and then they bought Time Warner. I'm pretty sure they'll make things difficult to somebody who doesn't want to use Netscape with AOL.
On the OS integration, when the trial started they said that Windows woudln't work if they took IE out. But then the judge force them to do it and it worked.
I still think it was a lot of luck. The fact that Apple and IBM failed to deliver product after they failed with Windows 1 is not an opportunity that many guys in a highly competitive environment get.
I believe is something similar with cable companies. Who would thought at the beginning of the 80s that they will end up being internet service providers, and that they would find a value for all that wasted bandwith they had?
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bdemenil
New member
instead of turning this into an opnion column - lets get some stats out. What does protools do that others don't?
JFogarty
New member
RWhite said:
Well, it is free, so they don't want to invest too much money into it. Also, they're software is built to run on only their hardware, on machines built for pro tools. the fact that it works as well as it does is pretty cool.
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charger
New member
Nothing does anything that anything else doesn't do.
Haven't you heard?
Actuall, I can name one thing that Pro Tools TDM on a Mac does that nothing else does, and it kicks major ass.
www.mcdsp.com
Haven't you heard?
Actuall, I can name one thing that Pro Tools TDM on a Mac does that nothing else does, and it kicks major ass.
www.mcdsp.com
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sonnylarsen
New member
A friend of mine bought the digidesign setup(digi001) and put it on a a beautiful new mac g4, bought some great monitors and spent all told about seven thousand dollars. I spent less than $1200 total on my entire setup, mics and mixer included.
I would like to be able to say that I have been able to compare recording quality between the different systems, but, alas, my buddy ran out of money and could't actually buy any mics. *sigh*
perhaps some day he can borrow mine. *snicker*
I would like to be able to say that I have been able to compare recording quality between the different systems, but, alas, my buddy ran out of money and could't actually buy any mics. *sigh*
perhaps some day he can borrow mine. *snicker*
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charger
New member
That's great, but it means nothing, except that your friend is an idiot. Digi 001 costs $800 anywhere, and you don't need a Mac to run it. Even with a nice Mac and good monitors, it shouldn't cost more than $4000.
Sorry you have such a dumb friend.
Check out my work (http://charger.iuma.com ) or Voxvendor's work (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/9/1246/singles.shtml ) if you want to hear the Digi 001 on a PC.
Sorry you have such a dumb friend.
Check out my work (http://charger.iuma.com ) or Voxvendor's work (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/9/1246/singles.shtml ) if you want to hear the Digi 001 on a PC.
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sonnylarsen
New member
Yes, he is dumb. Major point of the story there. I think the main point though is that anyone can by top of the line equipment if they have the bucks. How you use it is the most important thing. That's all I'm saying.
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bdemenil
New member
It is also well known that you can get better quality than the digi001 for the money. Delta1010 for instance.
cordura21
New member
I don't remember if it was Charger, but somebody said that ProTools is the system that better resembles the hardware layout of the old school. That, I think, is why is so well regarded by the pros.
I love my Digi, but if I'll go again maybe I
I love my Digi, but if I'll go again maybe I
wes480
New member
I think ProTools is very misunderstood. Just to preface - I don't use ProTools....I can't afford ProTools...etc.etc...and I am not claiming to be an expert - but here are my perceptions
1.) The Digi001 is no-way-no-how anything like "ProTools" of the pro world. Digi001 is/was an attempt to make a name in the lower homerecer market...and, it was a good one...even though it is dated now. I imagine eventually you will see a Digi2002 that will have 8XLRs, etc. who knows.
2.) "Real" ProTools is more about how the hardware works WITH the software...than it is about the two separately. ProTools is not the best multitrack software...the hardware probably isn't the best..blah blah - however....
When you work in a major studio on major projects with time contraints for 14 hours a day....you can't be messing with a mouse. You need to have LOTS of controls that you can fiddle with....and you need them to work perfectly with the software. Basically....taking digital and making it "seem" like the olden days. Becuase it is much more useable. So it really doesn't matter if their software is the best...or their hardware...their *total solution* is in my opinion the most complete thing out there for a big studio working endless hours per day.
It's less about "what can protools do that i can't do"...it's more about what can a 20 year experienced audio engineer do with it. He isn't going to be too happy sitting down at a computer with mouse and keyboard, mixing tons of stuff in Cubase - even if he could get the same sonic result. it isn't comfortable...
3.) Another issue to comfort is the visual aspect of a complete protools system. Having 64 track fader system, and whatever other goodies protools uses (i've looked at the diagrams..but, can't recall) on 2 monitors looks *real* to clients like madonna. You can't tell madonna that your PC can get the same result....and that she just needs to sing and not worry about it. Truth is - artists are very impressionable to ALL THINGS visual in the studio...and big mixing boards are one of them. Protools gives you the look and feel of that - even if all you need to use is the PC.
4.) In terms of the real sound quality...it still comes down to your preamps....your microphones...your expertise. i don't think ProTools is severely lacking in "sound quality"...I'm sure it's basically as good - the newest stuff may be better..than whatever Logic 5, etc. At any rate, its gonna be close. TDM isn't a big factor to me...becuase I am not a big plugins guy. But I guess TDM has a certain stigma of stability along with it.
In conclusion - Protools is a smart way to do business. You get people hooked...you get people to buy into the full system,or nothing at all...you make the big bucks. If I had 30 grand laying around...I'd drop it on a big protools setup....I am already trying to figure out a good way to get automation with my PC. And..its a tough search.
If I was starting a company...I'd do it like ProTools. Thats kind of what EMagic is leaning into right now with their LogicControl...making hardware and software. Obviously there isn't room or opprutunity for ProTools or Emagic to start making preamps...they are software companies at heart. But, just like the mouse revolutionized computers many a year ago....i think within the next 5 years it's going to be rare to see a lot of recording software worth its salt that doesn't offer hardware to complement the system. Faders...display clocks...whatever. It's not only where the money is...but where the increasing demand is. If you worked on your music 16 hours a day on just a PC...you'd be ready to kill your mouse and keyboard after a week. and THAT is why people (big shot top engineer dudes) buy protools and love it.
1.) The Digi001 is no-way-no-how anything like "ProTools" of the pro world. Digi001 is/was an attempt to make a name in the lower homerecer market...and, it was a good one...even though it is dated now. I imagine eventually you will see a Digi2002 that will have 8XLRs, etc. who knows.
2.) "Real" ProTools is more about how the hardware works WITH the software...than it is about the two separately. ProTools is not the best multitrack software...the hardware probably isn't the best..blah blah - however....
When you work in a major studio on major projects with time contraints for 14 hours a day....you can't be messing with a mouse. You need to have LOTS of controls that you can fiddle with....and you need them to work perfectly with the software. Basically....taking digital and making it "seem" like the olden days. Becuase it is much more useable. So it really doesn't matter if their software is the best...or their hardware...their *total solution* is in my opinion the most complete thing out there for a big studio working endless hours per day.
It's less about "what can protools do that i can't do"...it's more about what can a 20 year experienced audio engineer do with it. He isn't going to be too happy sitting down at a computer with mouse and keyboard, mixing tons of stuff in Cubase - even if he could get the same sonic result. it isn't comfortable...
3.) Another issue to comfort is the visual aspect of a complete protools system. Having 64 track fader system, and whatever other goodies protools uses (i've looked at the diagrams..but, can't recall) on 2 monitors looks *real* to clients like madonna. You can't tell madonna that your PC can get the same result....and that she just needs to sing and not worry about it. Truth is - artists are very impressionable to ALL THINGS visual in the studio...and big mixing boards are one of them. Protools gives you the look and feel of that - even if all you need to use is the PC.
4.) In terms of the real sound quality...it still comes down to your preamps....your microphones...your expertise. i don't think ProTools is severely lacking in "sound quality"...I'm sure it's basically as good - the newest stuff may be better..than whatever Logic 5, etc. At any rate, its gonna be close. TDM isn't a big factor to me...becuase I am not a big plugins guy. But I guess TDM has a certain stigma of stability along with it.
In conclusion - Protools is a smart way to do business. You get people hooked...you get people to buy into the full system,or nothing at all...you make the big bucks. If I had 30 grand laying around...I'd drop it on a big protools setup....I am already trying to figure out a good way to get automation with my PC. And..its a tough search.
If I was starting a company...I'd do it like ProTools. Thats kind of what EMagic is leaning into right now with their LogicControl...making hardware and software. Obviously there isn't room or opprutunity for ProTools or Emagic to start making preamps...they are software companies at heart. But, just like the mouse revolutionized computers many a year ago....i think within the next 5 years it's going to be rare to see a lot of recording software worth its salt that doesn't offer hardware to complement the system. Faders...display clocks...whatever. It's not only where the money is...but where the increasing demand is. If you worked on your music 16 hours a day on just a PC...you'd be ready to kill your mouse and keyboard after a week. and THAT is why people (big shot top engineer dudes) buy protools and love it.
wes480
New member
cordura21 said:
Hehe...I didn't read that. my novel above is basically what he said
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Lorddiagram
Moderator
truth
pro tools has a seriously superior "mix engine" - pro tools' plug-ins sound right.
pro tools has a seriously superior "mix engine" - pro tools' plug-ins sound right.
elevate
New member
Digidesign PRE. Of course it's probably totally proprietary - only works on Pro Tools rigs, and probably is outrageously priced.
wes480
New member
/me opens mouth, inserts foot.
interesting. I assume you are right about it's limitations...interesting to see pro tools moving that way. I don't see pro engineers saying "yeah...I like Great River..Neve..API...and DigiDesign pres.."
That's really interesting though. Of course...it's only 300 dollars per channel. So...it can't really be "the best in sonic clarity" - now can it?
I don't know what it means when it says "combined with world class converters" - if it is saying the converters are built in there....or....another pro tools product....or...expecting you to have your own converters or what. Whatever...it's a cool idea though....lots of people will buy it I am sure. business wise protools is ahead of the game.
I need to look into ProTools | HD a little more...find out exactly how good it is. Like I said earlier...I'd probably buy/use it if I had the money.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a big control board working with software seemlessly?
I am starting to think Logic Control might be my best bet...at $1300....i mean, it takes the place of a mouse...and thats it - but god that would be SUCH a blessing to me.
interesting. I assume you are right about it's limitations...interesting to see pro tools moving that way. I don't see pro engineers saying "yeah...I like Great River..Neve..API...and DigiDesign pres.."
That's really interesting though. Of course...it's only 300 dollars per channel. So...it can't really be "the best in sonic clarity" - now can it?
I don't know what it means when it says "combined with world class converters" - if it is saying the converters are built in there....or....another pro tools product....or...expecting you to have your own converters or what. Whatever...it's a cool idea though....lots of people will buy it I am sure. business wise protools is ahead of the game.
I need to look into ProTools | HD a little more...find out exactly how good it is. Like I said earlier...I'd probably buy/use it if I had the money.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a big control board working with software seemlessly?
I am starting to think Logic Control might be my best bet...at $1300....i mean, it takes the place of a mouse...and thats it - but god that would be SUCH a blessing to me.
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bdemenil
New member
wes480, please keep me posted on what you discover about automation/ interface with hardware mixer. I know alot of boards which are capable of interfacing with software have their own OS, converters, ect, and don't depend on being hooked up to a PC to function. What I'd like is something simple that is entirely dependent on the PC - don't want to pay for xtra converters effects, ect.
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ColdAsh
New member
Why pro tools is good
Pro tools is so huge for one reason. Hardware. You couldnt dream of doing the shit a mix plus system would allow you to do with any other software because they dont have the hardware power. However the gap is closing with new native DSP cards such as TC Power core and the Universal Audio Card. Digi 001 is okay but it doesnt deserve to be put in the same catagory as profesional mix or mix plus systems because it doesnt have what makes them good, the hardware. Personaly i think logic is a better program than pro tools, so anyone considering a 001 think about getting logic gold or platinum and something like a omni studio or 1010. Ive used both programes and i know what i prefere.
Pro tools is so huge for one reason. Hardware. You couldnt dream of doing the shit a mix plus system would allow you to do with any other software because they dont have the hardware power. However the gap is closing with new native DSP cards such as TC Power core and the Universal Audio Card. Digi 001 is okay but it doesnt deserve to be put in the same catagory as profesional mix or mix plus systems because it doesnt have what makes them good, the hardware. Personaly i think logic is a better program than pro tools, so anyone considering a 001 think about getting logic gold or platinum and something like a omni studio or 1010. Ive used both programes and i know what i prefere.
wes480
New member
what magic "hardware" does protools have that makes mixing etc. so much better? it's actual hardware made BY protools to do the work?
See I thought Digidesign basically only made interface hardware...I didn't know they made processing hardware.
See I thought Digidesign basically only made interface hardware...I didn't know they made processing hardware.