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Nashstudio
New member
Just wondering if there are many PARIS users in here?
Tom Cram
New member
Oh Yeah!
I'm on my 10th full length CD project using PARIS. I stepped off the analog bus (no pun intended) and into PARIS right after it was first shown at NAMM. My serial number is very, very low. I suffered through the early bug infested days to where we are now, very stable. I have sold at least four PARIS systems to colleague's in my area. They would come over to my studio, check out my results, go and buy one the next day.
What do you want to know?
Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
I'm on my 10th full length CD project using PARIS. I stepped off the analog bus (no pun intended) and into PARIS right after it was first shown at NAMM. My serial number is very, very low. I suffered through the early bug infested days to where we are now, very stable. I have sold at least four PARIS systems to colleague's in my area. They would come over to my studio, check out my results, go and buy one the next day.
What do you want to know?
Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
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Nashstudio
New member
I feel like PARIS is a well kept secret, people will still flame if you say its better than protools which is funny as hell. Here at a studio in Nashville we put the two head to head and there is like NO comparing them. PARIS laid the smack down on PT. The only bitch I have about PARIS is the mixer doesnt come with automation, but other than that this system is the shit. I still amazes me that people with like 4 grand to spend will go out and buy a breakout box like MOTU and then go buy a mixer and software and by the time they are through, they have no money and a shitload of problems. And a trackcount that is just sad. Oh well, I can keep suggesting but until people wake up I guess I will take advantage....
Tom Cram
New member
It gets better...
I was at the NAMM or AES (I can't remember which) when PARIS was introduced. They had an off-site demo room. They gave this demo with screen shots, talked about design philosphy, etc. I was knocked out. Keep in mind, I was the PTools guy at the studios I interned in. So, as I walking out discussing the possibilities with a friend we pass about 7 marketing guys from PTools. They were sitting in on the PARIS demo doing some recon. They looked very scared...It was priceless!
Soon afterward PTools came out with their new improved 24-bit converters. Also they debuted their "real-time" FX processing. Remember, at this time all PTools FX were non-real time. PARIS sure lit a fire under their behinds. I have used PTools since then, and it still is pretty cool. PARIS just does all the same stuff for 1/4 the price.
Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
I was at the NAMM or AES (I can't remember which) when PARIS was introduced. They had an off-site demo room. They gave this demo with screen shots, talked about design philosphy, etc. I was knocked out. Keep in mind, I was the PTools guy at the studios I interned in. So, as I walking out discussing the possibilities with a friend we pass about 7 marketing guys from PTools. They were sitting in on the PARIS demo doing some recon. They looked very scared...It was priceless!
Soon afterward PTools came out with their new improved 24-bit converters. Also they debuted their "real-time" FX processing. Remember, at this time all PTools FX were non-real time. PARIS sure lit a fire under their behinds. I have used PTools since then, and it still is pretty cool. PARIS just does all the same stuff for 1/4 the price.
Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
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Diragor
New member
I'm interested in PARIS but I have a question about the lack of mixer automation.
I'm assuming there is still fader automation in the PARIS software, right? So say you record some automation on a volume fader and when you play it back the physical mixer faders don't move but the ones on the screen do. If you want to change something in the fader movement are you then forced to use the mouse and change the software faders or can you move a physical fader and make the changes? If you can move the physical fader will it change the automation relative to what's already there or when you first move the fader does it kind of jump to the actual position of that fader? I'm confused as to how you could possibly continue working with the physical faders to do automation when they don't respond to what's already been done.
If either of you guys could offer an explanation, thanks!
I'm assuming there is still fader automation in the PARIS software, right? So say you record some automation on a volume fader and when you play it back the physical mixer faders don't move but the ones on the screen do. If you want to change something in the fader movement are you then forced to use the mouse and change the software faders or can you move a physical fader and make the changes? If you can move the physical fader will it change the automation relative to what's already there or when you first move the fader does it kind of jump to the actual position of that fader? I'm confused as to how you could possibly continue working with the physical faders to do automation when they don't respond to what's already been done.
If either of you guys could offer an explanation, thanks!
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Nashstudio
New member
The software has automation, to hard to fully explain here without showing you but you can setup PARIS to record, Fader, Mute, and pan automation using the Mixer. It can also be turned off and edited with just the click of a button. You can actually do pretty much everything without using the mouse. Another great thing is, even though when you load a project your faders don't snap where they should. PARIS will tell you when you load up a project exactly where each of the faders are suposed to be in the last saved mix. So only downside is having to do some 2 second sliding. Of course you also dont have to pay out the ying yang for the Control mixer and it does it all. I hope this helps Diragor. Go to the Ensoniq website and set up a demo in your area you will be both amazed and shocked by the shear power of this system. I myself have done 40 some tracks with a PIII 700, 128 megs or RAM and a single harddrive with effects on pretty much everything and there is no change in the performance. PARIS also works without a hitch with Pentium, Athlon, MAC and doesnt really care which you use. Ask them to show you the jog wheel hehe thats always a trip ;-) play your stuff backwards hehe.
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antofants
New member
hey nash,
your discussion about paris has really sparked my interest. Hadn't really heard too much about it until you mentioned it. I'm going to do a little more research on it now along with some of the other options floating around. I wanted to ask you though if you knew how easy it would be to incorporate the two Adats I have with it. Would it require an aditional purchase of some external time syncing device? I know the MOTU 2408 can run both the machines with a program, but to lock the Adats to the computer requires an additional purchase of an AV timepiece.
And did I hear you say that I can lay 16 tracks down at once? That sounds pretty for a computer recording system.
your discussion about paris has really sparked my interest. Hadn't really heard too much about it until you mentioned it. I'm going to do a little more research on it now along with some of the other options floating around. I wanted to ask you though if you knew how easy it would be to incorporate the two Adats I have with it. Would it require an aditional purchase of some external time syncing device? I know the MOTU 2408 can run both the machines with a program, but to lock the Adats to the computer requires an additional purchase of an AV timepiece.
And did I hear you say that I can lay 16 tracks down at once? That sounds pretty for a computer recording system.
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Nashstudio
New member
One of the wonders of PARIS is how expandable it is, if you were to get an ADAT card, PARIS will sync all of them to the system. And you can control all the ADATS with the paris interface. As far as recording 16 tracks at once, it will do as many inputs as you have on your system. Brian Tankersley's DAW is a wicked example of a PARIS system on steroids
http://www.emu.com/artist/tankersley/tankersley.html
I think he has like 96 inputs. Anyway read more about it at http://www.emu.com just don't freak when you see the prices on the site, the difference between retail and the real price is quite a bit. I think the site has a spot to set up a demo and to find a local dealer as well. Goodluck and let me know what you end up doing ;-)
http://www.emu.com/artist/tankersley/tankersley.html
I think he has like 96 inputs. Anyway read more about it at http://www.emu.com just don't freak when you see the prices on the site, the difference between retail and the real price is quite a bit. I think the site has a spot to set up a demo and to find a local dealer as well. Goodluck and let me know what you end up doing ;-)
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Diragor
New member
I haven't tried to do it myself, but one of the features listed for the MOTU 2408 is:
"Provides word clock, ADAT Sync and Digital Timepiece Control Track sync for Tascam - Achieves sample-accurate digital transfers between digital tape decks and the computer."
So it sounds to me like you wouldn't need any other device to sync with ADAT decks.
Expandability is also definitely a feature of the MOTU stuff, too. You can run three I/O units (8 in/out) with one of the PCI cards and you can put three of the cards in, adding up to a total of 72 in/out. I can record 8 tracks simultaneously without even touching the potential of my system, so 16 tracks at a time shouldn't be a problem if you have enough CPU horsepower, RAM and hard drive speed (for the sake of reference I have a PIII-800, 256MB SDRAM and a UDMA/66 7200rpm drive).
"Provides word clock, ADAT Sync and Digital Timepiece Control Track sync for Tascam - Achieves sample-accurate digital transfers between digital tape decks and the computer."
So it sounds to me like you wouldn't need any other device to sync with ADAT decks.
Expandability is also definitely a feature of the MOTU stuff, too. You can run three I/O units (8 in/out) with one of the PCI cards and you can put three of the cards in, adding up to a total of 72 in/out. I can record 8 tracks simultaneously without even touching the potential of my system, so 16 tracks at a time shouldn't be a problem if you have enough CPU horsepower, RAM and hard drive speed (for the sake of reference I have a PIII-800, 256MB SDRAM and a UDMA/66 7200rpm drive).
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antofants
New member
Diragor,
Thanks for the extra input. With that Adat thing, when I read the 2408mkII manual it really made it sound like I would need to purchase the AV timepiece from MOTU to get the Adats to perfectly sync to the computer software so that pressing play on the computer will cause the Adats to play also (at least for audio desk, and I couldn't imagine it would be too much different with Digital Performer, but I could be extremely wrong). However, I'm pretty certain that you can dump info from the Adats and to the Adats without the extra peice. (Of course, now that I think about it, how often would I really need to have that much control as to have everything running in perfect unison?)
I can appreciate the assurance in the processor power info also. I need to get a new computer (I'm "borrowing" a G3 blue and white from a friend that has just been a huge headache, problems like I would've never imagined. It's poopin out on me even as I'm writing this) and I would really like as much flexibility as I can, like recording 12 to 16 tracks at once (maybe even while playing that many back). With all the problems I've been having with this stupid machine freezing up on me in the middle of layin stuff down, I've about had it with computer based recording. That's why this Paris Pro is sounding really nice to me right about now.
Nash,
I checked out the emu site and found that there is a store in Philadelphia. It's about a two hour drive, but I think I'll take the trip some time soon just to at least check it out.
Thanks for the extra input. With that Adat thing, when I read the 2408mkII manual it really made it sound like I would need to purchase the AV timepiece from MOTU to get the Adats to perfectly sync to the computer software so that pressing play on the computer will cause the Adats to play also (at least for audio desk, and I couldn't imagine it would be too much different with Digital Performer, but I could be extremely wrong). However, I'm pretty certain that you can dump info from the Adats and to the Adats without the extra peice. (Of course, now that I think about it, how often would I really need to have that much control as to have everything running in perfect unison?)
I can appreciate the assurance in the processor power info also. I need to get a new computer (I'm "borrowing" a G3 blue and white from a friend that has just been a huge headache, problems like I would've never imagined. It's poopin out on me even as I'm writing this) and I would really like as much flexibility as I can, like recording 12 to 16 tracks at once (maybe even while playing that many back). With all the problems I've been having with this stupid machine freezing up on me in the middle of layin stuff down, I've about had it with computer based recording. That's why this Paris Pro is sounding really nice to me right about now.
Nash,
I checked out the emu site and found that there is a store in Philadelphia. It's about a two hour drive, but I think I'll take the trip some time soon just to at least check it out.
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antofants
New member
hey nash, tom, or whomever may know,
What is the differance between the paris pro and the paris bundle #3?
What is the differance between the paris pro and the paris bundle #3?
Tom Cram
New member
grain of salt
I'm not 100% on this , so take it with a grain of salt.
I think Paris Pro has a few added buttons on the C16, and the color is different. Other than that I'm pretty sure they are the same. The difference is in the software. 3.0 is supposed to be a major upgrade with lots of added functionality. Bundles 1/2/3 will work just fine with the new 3.0 Paris Pro software. I think EMU just wanted a corresponding hardware change to mirror the software upgrade.
I'm not 100% on this , so take it with a grain of salt.
I think Paris Pro has a few added buttons on the C16, and the color is different. Other than that I'm pretty sure they are the same. The difference is in the software. 3.0 is supposed to be a major upgrade with lots of added functionality. Bundles 1/2/3 will work just fine with the new 3.0 Paris Pro software. I think EMU just wanted a corresponding hardware change to mirror the software upgrade.
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twist
New member
Tom,
I read your discussion a couple of weeks back about Paris, and my interest was piqued.
However, a trip to their website left me a little confused.
What are the basic components you need to start out with? In the last thread, you mentioned "bundle #1" at just over $1000, but I couldn't find any mention of "bundles" at their site.
Thanks,
Twist
I read your discussion a couple of weeks back about Paris, and my interest was piqued.
However, a trip to their website left me a little confused.
What are the basic components you need to start out with? In the last thread, you mentioned "bundle #1" at just over $1000, but I couldn't find any mention of "bundles" at their site.
Thanks,
Twist
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Nashstudio
New member
The change in PARIS pro to the bundle III is like tom said I think 3 buttons on the C 16 and the color change. The bundle III will run 3.0 as well and since 3.0 isnt out yet there really isnt a difference. If I was buying a PARIS system I would get the bundle III and save myself some coin. Its just the same awesome thing in a new color pretty much. All the cards work the same, the EDS dsp is the same, and
right now you can find the bundle III's pretty cheap as opposed to the new blue one ;-) If you search around you can find a bundle III for under 3 grand. Take advantage of those that like to jump on the new thing bus hehe even when its the same.
right now you can find the bundle III's pretty cheap as opposed to the new blue one ;-) If you search around you can find a bundle III for under 3 grand. Take advantage of those that like to jump on the new thing bus hehe even when its the same.
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Nashstudio
New member
In response to twists question, The bundle III comes with the MEC unit, EDS card (DSP) and Control 16 mixer. The reason the site doesnt mention bundles anymore is because they are pushing the new PARIS Pro system and calling it that instead of a bundle.
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twist
New member
Nash,
Thanks for the info, any idea what's included in bundle #1?
Twist
Thanks for the info, any idea what's included in bundle #1?
Twist
Tom Cram
New member
Bundle #1 has enough to get you started. It has the EDS PCI card, the 2 in 2 out box, the C16, and the software. The cool thing is it is expandable as Nash has mentioned earlier. If you buy Bundle #1 you can eventually upgrade to Bundle #3 by just adding new input/output boxes. The software/C16/EDS stays the same.
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antofants
New member
nash and tom,
Would you guys both say then that any of the paris line (1,2,3, or Pro) is still better than straight computer recording through a device like a MOTU unit (in your opinion). Do you have the same amount of power in all the bundles (for the most part at least) being able to lay 16 tracks at once and use lots of processing effects and other doo-dads and have a huge amount of overall tracks without crashing and lossing audio quality? For instance, Nash, you said you had about 40 tracks going on your PIII 700 with lots of effects. Can the other bundles carry that much weight and maintain quality?
Do you guys have info on where to find the earlier models?
Would you guys both say then that any of the paris line (1,2,3, or Pro) is still better than straight computer recording through a device like a MOTU unit (in your opinion). Do you have the same amount of power in all the bundles (for the most part at least) being able to lay 16 tracks at once and use lots of processing effects and other doo-dads and have a huge amount of overall tracks without crashing and lossing audio quality? For instance, Nash, you said you had about 40 tracks going on your PIII 700 with lots of effects. Can the other bundles carry that much weight and maintain quality?
Do you guys have info on where to find the earlier models?
Tom Cram
New member
easy one
I'll try not to sound like a sales weasel. All of PARIS's EQ's, Verb's, FX, etc. use the included EDS card. Not your host computer's CPU. This frees up your CPU to handle the recording process and track management. Most other DAW's use the CPU for all EQ's, Verb's, FX, etc. This limits the track count to the capabilities of your Computers CPU, uncool. I have personally done 48-track projects in PARIS. Some of my buddies have done more. I haven't tried a multiple EDS system yet, but I'm hoping to pick up another EDS and C16 this summer.
All this stuff is well and good but the most important thing to me is sound. I have heard/used most of the systems out there and PARIS just sounded the best to me, everything else is gravy. Simple as that.
I'll try not to sound like a sales weasel. All of PARIS's EQ's, Verb's, FX, etc. use the included EDS card. Not your host computer's CPU. This frees up your CPU to handle the recording process and track management. Most other DAW's use the CPU for all EQ's, Verb's, FX, etc. This limits the track count to the capabilities of your Computers CPU, uncool. I have personally done 48-track projects in PARIS. Some of my buddies have done more. I haven't tried a multiple EDS system yet, but I'm hoping to pick up another EDS and C16 this summer.
All this stuff is well and good but the most important thing to me is sound. I have heard/used most of the systems out there and PARIS just sounded the best to me, everything else is gravy. Simple as that.
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Diragor
New member
antofants, I just read the post of yours where you're talking about being frustrated with your computer crashing while laying down tracks. Keep in mind: PARIS is not going to magically make your computer more stable than it already is. If your system is prone to crashing regardless of audio software and hardware then the stability of PARIS itself will not keep your computer from crashing. Neither will Logic or Pro Tools, for that matter. If your audio software is the only thing crashing your system then any of those packages I mentioned will be a huge improvement. Since I've already established myself as a MOTU/Logic fanboy 
I'll go ahead and mention that Logic Audio may very well be one of the most stable pieces of software (of *any* kind) that I've had the pleasure of using.
I'll go ahead and mention that Logic Audio may very well be one of the most stable pieces of software (of *any* kind) that I've had the pleasure of using.