How important are scales and theory in your guitar playing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Victory Pete
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Do you use theory and scales in your guitar playing?

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    110
I tried calling him, they said he had his head Up some cows ass right then.
 
I had to vote for YES.

Even though I play Black Metal, and I'm constantly TRYING to play out of the scales.

But ALWAYS, when I find a progression that sounds good, it's on a scale. Now, the scale might have changed during the progression, basic note has probably changed many times..

But I bet, if you play a riff that sounds good, you're on some scale, the scale might change from A Major to B Diminished flat in the middle of the riff, but it's still on a scale.

Then, KNOWING what scale you're on at any given momen't....

I don't have clue, and don't see why that would be any difference if I did..
The riff would sound the same either way.
 
I use a scale as a way of easily finding a note with a certain feeling. I don't think about the name of the scale or anything, but I know that when I play a certain note, and then I want to go to another note for a certain feeling, I pretty much instantly know how and where to find it. That's how I learned my scales in the first place: estimating the intervals between notes. In my head I put together those intervals in order, so now I know 'where I am' whatever I play. I've been playing guitar for a little over three years now, and this kind of liberal approach to learning scales works perfectly for me and everyone I've ever taught/played with.

I use this same approach in finding out chords. I tend to kind of unconsciously think of every single note in a chord. It gives me a good realization of every minute thing I'm doing, without being overly anal about my playing.

Theory is simply a way of of mapping ideas and concepts in your brain.
 
SlowerHand said:
I use a scale as a way of easily finding a note with a certain feeling. I don't think about the name of the scale or anything, but I know that when I play a certain note, and then I want to go to another note for a certain feeling, I pretty much instantly know how and where to find it. That's how I learned my scales in the first place: estimating the intervals between notes. In my head I put together those intervals in order, so now I know 'where I am' whatever I play. I've been playing guitar for a little over three years now, and this kind of liberal approach to learning scales works perfectly for me and everyone I've ever taught/played with.
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Exactly what I do. I learn scales only to learn how the fret patterns look on the neck, but then it's the patterns I memorize, I dont think what scale I'm playing or what the next note name is. I memorize patterns of fretting and learn to keep track of where I am at any given point, and where the pattern goes to next up or down. I try to learn both ways, play a scale going up and down the neck, but also play the same scale in a box staying on the same fret and going across the strings. I also like to figure out how to play the same riff in 4 or 5 different places and in different octaves. But when it comes time to play a solo real time, I visualize the patterns on the neck, I dont think about scale names and note names at all.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
Believe what? That someone who has a natural talent for music won't be any good if they don't practice? Or that someone who doesn't have a natural knack for music can be a good musician if they study and practice hard enough?
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yes and yes. All practice gives me is stamina. I have seen alot of guys who love to play and practice alot, but you can still tell they lack talent. Maybe you can be a music teacher or something. teachers and students are the ones that think that practice can make up for a lack of natural ability/talent. All the good musicians I know have talent.

But maybe your definition of talent is different than mine. Do you have an example of someone who you think has no talent but is a good musician?
 
hmmmm ..... this is obviously a touchy subject.

I'm goona come down in the middle.

I HAVE seen guys that I thought sucked and had no natural talent work hard and maybe 10 years later I'd see 'em and expected them to still suck but they surprised the shit out of me and played well.
They managed to improve by hard work.

I have also seen PLENTY of players that no amount of work would ever make them any good.

I do think that the very best players have to have that natural talent.
I just don't see people with no natural ability get to the very highest level of play but then, I don't see that many players with talent getting to that level either.
It takes both to get to the highest levels of musicianship IMO.
 
soundchaser59 said:
Exactly what I do. I learn scales only to learn how the fret patterns look on the neck, but then it's the patterns I memorize, I dont think what scale I'm playing or what the next note name is. I memorize patterns of fretting and learn to keep track of where I am at any given point, and where the pattern goes to next up or down. I try to learn both ways, play a scale going up and down the neck, but also play the same scale in a box staying on the same fret and going across the strings. I also like to figure out how to play the same riff in 4 or 5 different places and in different octaves. But when it comes time to play a solo real time, I visualize the patterns on the neck, I dont think about scale names and note names at all.
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I agree with you on memorizing the patterns and playing them throughout the neck but it's also a good thing to know what the root notes are.Knowing your notes can be very helpful if by chance your in the middle of a tune and you break a string.Sure you can stop and grab your spare axe but being able to finish a song has its advantages.It's a lot easier to fudge your way through a lead but to play the chords at different places and knowing right where to go on the fly,finish the tune,and then grab your spare,shows how well you know your axe.
 
Coming in late, I'm not going to read all two hundred some-odd entries, but I'll say this: IMO, scale and theory are very important in every aspect of playing music and everyone uses them whether they are aware of it or not, irrespective of whether they have any training or not. Every time you make a judgment call of whether a note sounds "good" or "bad" you are using music theory. Getting trained in music theory is learning the vocabulary so that you can communicate with others about it.

The other night I was noodling around on guitar with our keyboardist, who has a master's degree in music composition. At one point he looked at me and said, "I like that; you are playing in <insert technical term> mode." My reaction was, "I am? Cool." :D
 
Hi, I have been away for a bit! This has been a very interesting thread and Poll. When I first started playing electric right after High School, I felt completely lost in the frets, yes I could always copy songs by ear but I knew there was logic to it. I read all I could on the subject of theories and scales. The first night back ar our insufficient little jam space everyone was impressed, I could play a flurry of notes, in key.
VP
 
Victory Pete said:
Hi, I have been away for a bit! This has been a very interesting thread and Poll. When I first started playing electric right after High School, I felt completely lost in the frets, yes I could always copy songs by ear but I knew there was logic to it. I read all I could on the subject of theories and scales. The first night back ar our insufficient little jam space everyone was impressed, I could play a flurry of notes, in key.
VP
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Fuck, this idiot is back. :rolleyes:
 
ez_willis said:
i learned to play bass and guitar on my own. i started with guitar when i was about 14. a year later a friend's band needed a bass player so i sold my guitar gear and got bass gear. i was in a couple of bands for the next couple years, and when i was 19, the band i was in got signed to a development deal. they put us on salary and told us to write songs and get better. that band had only been together for 3 months and we only had 7 songs.

i quit my job to play music(and it was impossible to party like i was at the time and do construction). Since i had the time, i decided that i was going to take a couple of intro music classes so i can start at the beginning and learn how to read music and get a better understanding of music. As i was learning how to read music and play the things on the charts, i would memorize the melody before i had a chance to recognize the notes on the chart, and my fingers just took over. it was impossible at that point for me to go back and start at the beginning.

In no way would i recommend to someone who is thinking about picking up an instrument to NOT take lessons and learn the craft inside and out, including on how to read and write and a thorough understanding of theory. OTOH, that's a great way to get a 15 year old kid who wants to rock completely discouraged and uninterested in playing music.
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EZ, despite the beauty and wisdom that that post evokes, I'm gonna take it all with a pinch of salt !:);)
 
The skin on my face gets scaly. So I scrape it off and wherever it lands on the fretboard, I play those notes.
 
ez_willis said:
that's actually one that is 100% accurate and truthful.
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That was my take on your post.

One thing guitarists should realize too is that music theory and in particular the way music was written on music paper was based on keyboard/piano.
The way middle "C" is in between the bass and treble clefs for instance. That, plus oddities like that dastardly B string and the prevalence of music reading piano teachers have always given piano players an edge over guitar players as far as learning many aspects of theory.

If music was primarily written in guitar tablature the situation would be reversed.

I personally think that a lot of guitar players would really benefit in learning how to lay down a good shaker track on a tune. How to keep time and outline the form of the tune.

I think everybody should at least try some horn like trumpet/bugle/or trombone to get some idea of what that funny harmonic series (like the World's Series?) thingy is all about.

'Cause all there is to the math (theory) of music is time and the harmonic series. Everything is under one of those two headings.

The harmonic series is pretty cut and dried. It keeps the planets in their places.

Time is the weird one.
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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I partly agree and disagree with this. Some people do appear to be born with a kind of innate ability to do certain things - but they still have to practice in many, possibly most, of those instances. Pele practiced and practiced. So did Tiger. On the other hand, John Lennon by his own admission had a lousy sense of timing {great for a rhythm guitarist ! } but worked to overcome that. Ironically, Ringo never practiced ! Some peoples' drive and subsequent dominance may not be innate at all, but a reaction to all kinds of happenings or circumstances.
And reading the words of loads of musicians over the years, I don't think it's as clear cut as "either you have it or you don't". I can see why people feel this but for me the world is just too big and too old with too many variables for things to be that simple.
On the last point, I think there's alot in that although some can learn it. Mind you, I've met too many people {some of whom are musicians with perfect pitch that naturally picked up their instruments} who just do not seem able to keep the beat. Mysteries abound.
 
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