How important are scales and theory in your guitar playing?

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Do you use theory and scales in your guitar playing?

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you can learn rhythm...I am from Scotland and have some sense of it...we have to learn it in that country, its as alien to us as being tall..

But we have red hair so if you laugh we'll bust yir heads!!!!
 
ocnor said:
Sorry but that's total bullshit. You are either born with a sense of timing or you are not. When my children were infants they could wave their hands in time with music. Also you can't "learn" to play with feel you either have it or you don't. That would be like "learning" to love someone which would make it artificial.
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That's fucking ridiculous. Anybody can improve anything if they work hard enough at it.
They may not posses the physical and mental capabilities to excel at it but they most certainly can get better.
 
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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I do agree with this. But, i don't think your analogy stretchs far enough, because i dont think musicians need talent to create good music, and isnt that all that matters in the end?

Would you say the guys from greenday, linkin park, etc have a comparable talent level to gretzky, woods etc? I wouldn't, but they're still selling millions of records.

The bands that you listed as your kind of music aren't exactly virtuoso's. In fact they're what i would consider "shit". Who cares, they create music that people like.
 
chamelious said:
I do agree with this. But, i don't think your analogy stretchs far enough, because i dont think musicians need talent to create good music, and isnt that all that matters in the end?

Would you say the guys from greenday, linkin park, etc have a comparable talent level to gretzky, woods etc? I wouldn't, but they're still selling millions of records.

The bands that you listed as your kind of music aren't exactly virtuoso's. In fact they're what i would consider "shit". Who cares, they create music that people like.
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Don't confuse talent with selling records. There is no relation whatsoever. Lady GaGa and Britney Spears sell lots of records. Are they talented to you? :D

I'm strictly anti-virtuoso. I suck on purpose and just do whatever musically I choose to do. I don't care who likes it. I'm not trying to be rich or famous.
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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yup there's truth in that..
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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Just because you will never be as good as Tiger is no reason not to practice your swing. I agree that talent + practice = awesome. I would also say that practice - talent > talent - practice.

I'm inclined to agree with you statement about some people just having no sense of timing after spending last night arguing with a rhythmically challenged guitar player about playing to a click track.
I think there are some people who have a whole lot farther to go to improve their sense of timing than others but I think anybody can improve anything with practice.
 
chamelious, bless his little heart, has a total struggling indie band complex happening. Poor fella can't seperate talent, theory, and record sales. I'm sure what he thinks he's doing is unique and different and is gonna take the world by storm! :D
 
Yonce N Mild said:
Just because you will never be as good as Tiger is no reason not to practice your swing. .
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I didn't say that. Practice all day and night, non-stop, but you gotta understand that you'll never get there. Once a person accepts their own limitations and makes peace with them, then they can really start to enjoy whatever it is they're doing just for what it is. Practice, and get as good as you can at golf, and have a blast along the way. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you're gonna beat Tiger.
 
cephus said:
you can't play guitar and not have rhythm. Sax, maybe. Not guitar.
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well, you'd be one of the very many sax players that suck.
It's not any different than guitar.

ummmmm, I think the very best players , and I mean the VERY best, are born with natural timing and good ears.
I've seen people work hard and get decent when they originally had no timing or ears but I've never seen one get to the higher levels of playing ....... I'm talking top one percent type playing.

Just my opinion though so I'm not gonna argue the point ..... just my opinion.
 
Greg_L said:
I didn't say that. Practice all day and night, non-stop, but you gotta understand that you'll never get there. Once a person accepts their own limitations and makes peace with them, then they can really start to enjoy whatever it is they're doing just for what it is. Practice, and get as good as you can at golf, and have a blast along the way. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you're gonna beat Tiger.
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I can agree with that.
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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Absolutely, and as a current qualified cricket and rugby coach coaching kids from 8 -18, I can pretty much say with confidence that if I selected kids purely on their natural hand to eye or speed or strength, I would soon have my coaching badges rescinded. To be honest I'd rather have a team full of try hards than a team full of preening jocks. When you do come across exceptionally talented kids you send them up the coaching chain in any case.

Music is the same as sport in one regard and that is at a basic level it should be open access to all and not skill or ability dependant. Any teacher who sends a kid off because they can't tap their foot in time is not a teacher. A teachers job in those environment is to maximise whatever ability the student has and also to maximise their enjoyment.

Nuff said.
 
Greg_L said:
Music is like sports - which is something I'm sure the vast majority of the picked-last musician dweebs in here have no clue about.

You can practice and practice, and get better, but you'll never be as good as the guy that just has natural ability for whatever it is he's doing. Take Tiger Woods for example. Any one of us could study the game, take golf lessons, and practice our asses off. We'll never be as good at golf as he is. Yeah, there are other great golfers, but he has that something inside of him that makes him dominant. Same with Watne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Joe Montana, Pele, etc. It's the same with music. Lots of us are decent musicians. With practice you can get better. But with all the practice in the world, you'll never be as good as the guy that just has it and only half-ass practices.

And....while you can teach theory, you can't teach rhythm. Some people just can't keep a beat.
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wow ...... well said and I agree totally.

Now get back to grunting!

:D
 
I'm the Tiger Woods of the Guitars and Basses forum - and I'm primarily a drummer. :D
 
naw your like a talented girl golfer they let play with the men....:)
 
i don't practice. i'm as good as i need to be to write good songs and record all parts to 'em. when i'm playing music it's not fiddling around with scales and rudiments, it's being productive.
 
ez_willis said:
i don't practice. i'm as good as i need to be to write good songs and record all parts to 'em. when i'm playing music it's not fiddling around with scales and rudiments, it's being productive.
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Exactly. You can be my caddy.
 
gecko zzed said:
The statement is far too absolute for my liking. It is not always an "either/or" situation. There are people with natural exquisite timing, and there are people with none at all. But there is a whole mess of people with a moderate amount of talent that get by pretty well.
There are some who latch onto the groove will little effort. There are others who find it more difficult, but can improve through training and practice.
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I agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that it was an "all or nothing" proposition which is why I used the phrase "sense of timing". The either/or applies to having some timing or having none.


gecko zzed said:
Music is no different to any other pastime (making furniture, playing golf, racing a car); talent, skill, expertise and knowledge are required to get somewhere in all of these.
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If you remove "talent" from that equation you will NEVER have skill and expertise, no matter how much knowledge you possess. A tonedeaf person can be taught by the best teachers in the world,and practice till the cows come home, but they will always be tonedeaf.
 
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