How important are good pre-amps?

[richierabid]

Hey, thanks to all in advance for your input!

So how important do you think good microphone pre-amps are?
A friend of mine who is a little more advanced at engineering than me said they are very important.

I'm using a firepod which has it's own pre-amps, and I'm considering upgrading somethings in my studio.

 

[Monkey Allen]

Yeah I think they are pretty important. They are a good way to get the microphone into the computer. Anyway, I used to use a Presonus Firebox for preampage...now I use it as a means to get my ART MPA Gold preamp into my computer. The ART sounds a big step up to me in quality. Maybe I'll buy another preamp one day. Anyway, to conclude...yeah I suppose they are important.

 

[Massive Master]

Any mic is only as good as the preamp driving it.

A $100 SM58 can sound fine through a nice preamp. A $3000 U47FET will sound like crap through a crappy preamp.

After the monitoring chain and *proper* room treatments, I'd put them up in the "freakishly important" category.

And it's another "additive" (for lack of a better term in this case) tool -- Listen to one preamp that sounds "just a tiny bit" better than another -- Then record 20 tracks... That "just a tiny bit" turns into a whole lot of difference.

 

[richierabid]

Any mic is only as good as the preamp driving it.

A $100 SM58 can sound fine through a nice preamp. A $3000 U47FET will sound like crap through a crappy preamp.

After the monitoring chain and *proper* room treatments, I'd put them up in the "freakishly important" category.

And it's another "additive" (for lack of a better term in this case) tool -- Listen to one preamp that sounds "just a tiny bit" better than another -- Then record 20 tracks... That "just a tiny bit" turns into a whole lot of difference.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by monitoring chain? Do you mean like staying on top of levels?

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by monitoring chain? Do you mean like staying on top of levels?

The speakers you listen to and the amp that powers those speakers for the purpose of hearing what is going through the mixing board. A monitor chain may have more than that, but there's the simple outline.

And it's way more important than either the mics or the mic preamps.

 

[dintymoore]

A mic pre brings out the detail of the mic. If you don't like your mic, you probably won't like it if you hear more detail. If you like your mic, you will probably still like it with less detail.

Here's what I've found with my $4000 mic (custom U87), $2500 mic pre (Jensen Twin Servo) and my $150 mic pre (Presonus BlueTube):

The mic sounds basically the same through both preamps but the expensive one brings out more detail.

What I've found is the mic is absolutely more important than the pre. If I had to start over on a budget, I would buy a cheap pre like the Presonus and a U87 and start there. The sound I want from mics is the Neumann sound, and I only know one way to get that.

I could use a lot of home stereo speakers. The most used small monitors in pro studios, NS-10M's, are home stereo speakers that aren't flat in the slightest and thousands of hits have been mixed on them. Apparently, me and a bunch of pros are the only people that like them!

So my advise, which routinely pisses off people (I love it! ) is buy a U87 and any ol' mic pre, and then save up for a good mic pre.

Mic first, by a long shot. After the source, the mic makes the most difference. I love tube compressors, and always use one after my pre. That's as important as a good preamp to me.

But nothing matters as much as the song, the arrangement, the intro... all that matters more than any of what happens later.

 

[grimtraveller]

So how important do you think good microphone pre-amps are?
A friend of mine who is a little more advanced at engineering than me said they are very important.

To answer your question - they are important.

For years I used the on board preamp on my Tascam 488. While not top of the range, {it's arguable if it's even bottom of the range ! } I simply could not have recorded vocals, acoustic guitars, drums, mandolins, double bass, flutes, recorders, clarinets and percussion {you get the picture} without it. After many years I bought an outboard pre, a Behringer {cue laughs, cusses and groans in equal measure !} and also a Behringer mixer with about 10 or so preamps. It really makes a difference. They're not great, more seasoned members of this forum can tell you about the ins and outs of the great ones, but yeah, you'll need one. Even a shitty one is better than not one at all. But always remember - it's a tool. It doesn't make a shambolic song great, good or even passable.

 

[moresound]

HA HA HA
Sh*tf*ck
Ohhhhhhhhhh
There got that out of my system!!!
Yes very important as is the first thing in your audio line the microphone!!!

 

[Massive Master]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by monitoring chain?

When people say that there are "no rules" in audio, it's somewhat of a misleading statement - There are at least two...

1) No matter your skill level, no matter how well-honed your listening skills are, no matter how many years of critical listening study you may have, you will only ever hear your recorded source as accurately and consistently as your monitoring chain will allow you to hear.

2) No matter how accurate and consistent your monitors might be, it will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the space they're in allows them to be.

The monitoring chain affects every single sonic decision you will ever make - No other piece of gear has that importance. Mic choice, placement, preamp choice during tracking - every EQ or dynamics setting during mixing - Every last decision you will make is based on how accurately you can hear it through your monitors.

 

[snatchman]

When people say that there are "no rules" in audio, it's somewhat of a misleading statement - There are at least two...

1) No matter your skill level, no matter how well-honed your listening skills are, no matter how many years of critical listening study you may have, you will only ever hear your recorded source as accurately and consistently as your monitoring chain will allow you to hear.

2) No matter how accurate and consistent your monitors might be, it will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the space they're in allows them to be.

The monitoring chain affects every single sonic decision you will ever make - No other piece of gear has that importance. Mic choice, placement, preamp choice during tracking - every EQ or dynamics setting during mixing - Every last decision you will make is based on how accurately you can hear it through your monitors.

Yeah..I'll agree with John, especially on the skill level part..I remember back in the 70's..( so I'm revealing my age.....) as an ex-Drag Racer, I had a friend that was in-experienced at the sport. ( He was just starting/building his race car).He had little modification and it was basically stock..As for my car, I had been doing it awhile, had heavily modified/invested in a 9 sec Dragster..He wanted me to drive his car to see what it was really capable of since I was the more experienced driver..He could get 14 sec/95 mph quarter runs...The best I could get from it was a 13 sec/98 mph quarter run....When I ran my car ( heavily modified/better components,etc, along with the experience, ran 10 sec/ 137 mph quarter.... ( more like it)..To make things fair, I allowed him to run my car ( it took some thinking on this one....).Even heaviliy modified, he could only muster 12 sec runs..So, the moral is as John says, even with the good skill levels,it can be stunted with lesser qualified gear even tho the results may turn out usable sometimes..Oh yeah......We both had the exact same car.... 1969 Nova..!

 

[TheChikenMaster]

good preamps are like good parents if the parents are good the kid comes out good and if the opposite is true then the opposite happens. So too with preamps if the preamps are bad the beginnning of alll then the outcome is bad

 

[mshilarious]

In the future, there will be no preamps. Even today, they aren't always necessary. Something like a tube condenser on a hot source, or perhaps a phantom-powered condenser using only a phantom supply, can sometimes be connected directly to a converter.

Preamps cannot "bring out detail" in a mic. That's impossible. The only interaction between a mic and a preamp is the input impedance of the preamp (and of course the quality of the phantom power supply). That is a characteristic not reserved to preamps. Since the input impedance of a converter is nominally a rather high 10K, you can insert any type of load you like between the mic and converter and get the same effect as the same load at the front of a preamp.

Thus, preamps can only add gain to the signal from the mic, and only in a way that either degrades or maintains the integrity of the original signal. Some of these degradations might be perceived as desirable. If such degradation becomes a function of gain, then it follows one would select the minimum or maximum amount of gain that would avoid or select that feature.

Stipulating that you probably need something on the order of 30dB of gain to maximize signal-to-noise ratio when feeding your converters, the question then becomes "do I need a preamp that degrades the signal less than the preamp I already own, or a preamp that degrades the signal in a more desirable manner?"

 

[TheChikenMaster]

In the future, there will be no preamps. Even today, they aren't always necessary. Something like a tube condenser on a hot source, or perhaps a phantom-powered condenser using only a phantom supply, can sometimes be connected directly to a converter.

Preamps cannot "bring out detail" in a mic. That's impossible. The only interaction between a mic and a preamp is the input impedance of the preamp (and of course the quality of the phantom power supply). That is a characteristic not reserved to preamps. Since the input impedance of a converter is nominally a rather high 10K, you can insert any type of load you like between the mic and converter and get the same effect as the same load at the front of a preamp.

Thus, preamps can only add gain to the signal from the mic, and only in a way that either degrades or maintains the integrity of the original signal. Some of these degradations might be perceived as desirable. If such degradation becomes a function of gain, then it follows one would select the minimum or maximum amount of gain that would avoid or select that feature.

Stipulating that you probably need something on the order of 30dB of gain to maximize signal-to-noise ratio when feeding your converters, the question then becomes "do I need a preamp that degrades the signal less than the preamp I already own, or a preamp that degrades the signal in a more desirable manner?"

This makes alot more sense than what I said.