Sen
New member
cool, thanks harvey...so wide spaced is the way to go....
thanks sir
thanks sir
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jmorris
New member
Harvey, I'm lazy I guess. I dig out the mic I think will work the best,stick it on what I'm trying to record.........and just listen. Move the mic, turn itr, back it up a bit, eq it. Im not very tech..but I like what you are doing. Maybe a little simpler for us guys that are the hit and miss type!! Thanks! Jim
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Harvey Gerst
New member
"Hit and miss" is a wonderful luxury, but it takes time, and some people just don't have that kind of time, or they're on the clock. If you're already to the point where you can "dig out the mic I think will work the best", then maybe you're a little more advanced than the people this thread is aiming to help.
For many people, learning by trial and error is a wonderful way to understand the do's and don'ts of mic choise and placements, but understanding the principles behind what the mic was designed for and how the mic actually picks up the sound can often save valuable setup time.
It also helps answer some questions, like "why does my cardioid vocal mic feedback when I cup my hands around it"?
For many people, learning by trial and error is a wonderful way to understand the do's and don'ts of mic choise and placements, but understanding the principles behind what the mic was designed for and how the mic actually picks up the sound can often save valuable setup time.
It also helps answer some questions, like "why does my cardioid vocal mic feedback when I cup my hands around it"?
carlosguardia
New member
Harvey,
First of all, thank you so much for this thread; it has been a great source of information and answers. I have a Question that I've looked to be answered here but don't see an answer for yet. I'm going to record a violin player and would love to know what you think would be the best way to pick up a single violin. The violin is one instrument that still has to be discussed in this thread. Thank you in advance,
Carlos
First of all, thank you so much for this thread; it has been a great source of information and answers. I have a Question that I've looked to be answered here but don't see an answer for yet. I'm going to record a violin player and would love to know what you think would be the best way to pick up a single violin. The violin is one instrument that still has to be discussed in this thread. Thank you in advance,
Carlos
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Harvey Gerst
New member
It was covered pretty well in these two threads:
https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=26563
https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=42024
https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=26563
https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=42024
carlosguardia
New member
I'll look into those threads; thank you once again mr. Gerst.
Carlos
Carlos
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skydvr
New member
hey harvy,
thank you so much for this information.
i was just looking around an stumbled upon this hours ago ( i was supposed to drive up to see my girlfriend, but it looks like that won't happen now).
i've just been skimming over this taking the stuff i need. being someone that is just starting to record, i've found tons of usefull things. you have definately saved me a lot of time with some trial and error that could have been a wate of time(although if something is learned it's not really a waste is it?)
well anyways. i appreciate all the time and effort you and everyone else put in with questions and ideas.
thanks a lot
-derek
oh by the way i had started having problems with my sciatica(?),
i finally got to a theripist. he measured from my belly button to the bone that sticks out on each ankle. it turns out that my right leg is almost 1/2" shorter than the left. i did physical therapy for a few weeks & i got shims to put in my shoe. i haven't really had any problems since.
thank you so much for this information.
i was just looking around an stumbled upon this hours ago ( i was supposed to drive up to see my girlfriend, but it looks like that won't happen now).
i've just been skimming over this taking the stuff i need. being someone that is just starting to record, i've found tons of usefull things. you have definately saved me a lot of time with some trial and error that could have been a wate of time(although if something is learned it's not really a waste is it?)
well anyways. i appreciate all the time and effort you and everyone else put in with questions and ideas.
thanks a lot
-derek
oh by the way i had started having problems with my sciatica(?),
i finally got to a theripist. he measured from my belly button to the bone that sticks out on each ankle. it turns out that my right leg is almost 1/2" shorter than the left. i did physical therapy for a few weeks & i got shims to put in my shoe. i haven't really had any problems since.
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
Harvey; howdy neighbor! Im just down the road in lewisville. I came across this humongous thread and will respond when I get through it so as not to be redundant. also your avatar looks a lot like ME 
Thanks
Thanks
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
And Still Reading!!!!
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Whoa, just saw your post. Drop by one of these days for a visit - you're only about 20 miles away.wfaraoni said:Harvey; howdy neighbor! Im just down the road in lewisville. I came across this humongous thread and will respond when I get through it so as not to be redundant. also your avatar looks a lot like ME
Thanks
J
Jeeper
New member
Re: Harvey's Lesson From Top
Recording is just a side line to me but when I went back to the top of this thread and read what Harvey said it really struck me. I've been working in one type craft with a lot of technical aspects for nearly 30 years now and when I reread that post it brought back perhaps my most valuable lesson. When I started out I had an older employee, different craft & different department, tell me that the best I could do to learn was "find the oldest guy you can, latch onto him, and he will help you because he knows that he's going to be at least one step ahead of you." That's worked for me in my learning experiences. Just the other day I worked on a problem with an outdated piece of equipment that no one else had fixed and I remembered what that old guy told me years ago. I fixed that problem quickly (2 minutes) and passed the fix on to a young guy next to me. He asked how I knew what to do and I had to tell him his dad taught me that trick over 20 years ago.
Why post that here, well Harvey understands and I hope everyone else does now.
THANKS HARVEY
Harvey Gerst said:
Recording is just a side line to me but when I went back to the top of this thread and read what Harvey said it really struck me. I've been working in one type craft with a lot of technical aspects for nearly 30 years now and when I reread that post it brought back perhaps my most valuable lesson. When I started out I had an older employee, different craft & different department, tell me that the best I could do to learn was "find the oldest guy you can, latch onto him, and he will help you because he knows that he's going to be at least one step ahead of you." That's worked for me in my learning experiences. Just the other day I worked on a problem with an outdated piece of equipment that no one else had fixed and I remembered what that old guy told me years ago. I fixed that problem quickly (2 minutes) and passed the fix on to a young guy next to me. He asked how I knew what to do and I had to tell him his dad taught me that trick over 20 years ago.
Why post that here, well Harvey understands and I hope everyone else does now.
THANKS HARVEY
T
toorglick
New member
I just want to thank Harvey for passing along his knowledge. There is so much information here and I will use it all. Thanks!
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
Acoustic guitar problems
Harvey, Thank you for all your devotion and time in replying to all these questions in such a learned and enlightening fashion. you did all this without trying to show off how much you know but rather, in a way to share as much as you could with as many as possible and for that you receive my utmost respect and admiration.
Ive been having the dreaded back problems myself which as you know leaves my priority time allotment for what I can do with my limited free time at a premium but I would like very much to meet you in the future (maybe this Summer), especially since you live so close by.
Well I finally made through this thread for the first time, (after 1 1/2 weeks), and I have learned a lot more than any other reading on the subject to date.
I do have some unanswered questions regarding acoustic guitar recording which I did not see addressed sufficiently to overcome these problems.
They are:
1) what are some approaches to limit the fret,string and other transient noises made by the player when recording an acoustic guitar. BY using your techniques I have achieved much better tone than I ever have,. the noise from string buzz/whine, and fret slap as well as right hand noises against the body or pick/string seem to remain at an objectionable level. What tricks do you have up your sleeve for this?
2) As you mentioned, Every acoustic guitar has certain resonant frequencies which seem to dominante the recorded sound and can even mask the beauty of the instrument or ruin the desired tone as well as drowning out what is being played.
I know you mentioned moving/experimenting with the mic positions to minimize this but could you elaborate on any other tricks or positioning strategies to help with this. The recorded sound which I am getting seems exagerated many fold to what I hear from that same instrument live.
Heres a link to a little piece I posted some time ago to get ideas on what to do for tone. I have progressed past the mic'd amp thing since then and also have learned that 2 condensor mics work a whole lot better than the shure 58a for the type of acoustic result recording I had In mind. This is just to give you an Idea of what Im trying to record if youd care to listen.Its called
ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF A PIN
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1644&alid=-1
There is also one there which demonstrates the "string noise" problem when recording acoustically with a condensor mic as well called SRV NoT!!
Both must be redone,(not that they were in any way finished to begin with), and will be much better after reading your Great Thread!
Thank You, Very Much
Bill
Harvey, Thank you for all your devotion and time in replying to all these questions in such a learned and enlightening fashion. you did all this without trying to show off how much you know but rather, in a way to share as much as you could with as many as possible and for that you receive my utmost respect and admiration.
Ive been having the dreaded back problems myself which as you know leaves my priority time allotment for what I can do with my limited free time at a premium but I would like very much to meet you in the future (maybe this Summer), especially since you live so close by.
Well I finally made through this thread for the first time, (after 1 1/2 weeks), and I have learned a lot more than any other reading on the subject to date.
I do have some unanswered questions regarding acoustic guitar recording which I did not see addressed sufficiently to overcome these problems.
They are:
1) what are some approaches to limit the fret,string and other transient noises made by the player when recording an acoustic guitar. BY using your techniques I have achieved much better tone than I ever have,. the noise from string buzz/whine, and fret slap as well as right hand noises against the body or pick/string seem to remain at an objectionable level. What tricks do you have up your sleeve for this?
2) As you mentioned, Every acoustic guitar has certain resonant frequencies which seem to dominante the recorded sound and can even mask the beauty of the instrument or ruin the desired tone as well as drowning out what is being played.
I know you mentioned moving/experimenting with the mic positions to minimize this but could you elaborate on any other tricks or positioning strategies to help with this. The recorded sound which I am getting seems exagerated many fold to what I hear from that same instrument live.
Heres a link to a little piece I posted some time ago to get ideas on what to do for tone. I have progressed past the mic'd amp thing since then and also have learned that 2 condensor mics work a whole lot better than the shure 58a for the type of acoustic result recording I had In mind. This is just to give you an Idea of what Im trying to record if youd care to listen.Its called
ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF A PIN
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1644&alid=-1
There is also one there which demonstrates the "string noise" problem when recording acoustically with a condensor mic as well called SRV NoT!!
Both must be redone,(not that they were in any way finished to begin with), and will be much better after reading your Great Thread!
Thank You, Very Much
Bill
Last edited:
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Re: Acoustic guitar problems
wfaraoni said:Harvey, Thank you for all your devotion and time in replying to all these questions in such a learned and enlightening fashion. you did all this without trying to show off how much you know but rather, in a way to share as much as you could with as many as possible and for that you receive my utmost respect and admiration.
Ive been having the dreaded back problems myself which as you know leaves my priority time allotment for what I can do with my limited free time at a premium but I would like very much to meet you in the future (maybe this Summer), especially since you live so close by.
Well I finally made through this thread for the first time, (after 1 1/2 weeks), and I have learned a lot more than any other reading on the subject to date.
I do have some unanswered questions regarding acoustic guitar recording which I did not see addressed sufficiently to overcome these problems.
They are:
1) what are some approaches to limit the fret,string and other transient noises made by the player when recording an acoustic guitar. BY using your techniques I have achieved much better tone than I ever have,. the noise from string buzz/whine, and fret slap as well as right hand noises against the body or pick/string seem to remain at an objectionable level. What tricks do you have up your sleeve for this?
Distance is your friend as far as lowering all the extra sounds. The other trick is something you aren't gonna like: practice. You learn how to lift your fingers off the strings and where to place them to eliminate fret buzz and reduce string squeeks.
2) As you mentioned, Every acoustic guitar has certain resonant frequencies which seem to dominante the recorded sound and can even mask the beauty of the instrument or ruin the desired tone as well as drowning out what is being played.
I know you mentioned moving/experimenting with the mic positions to minimize this but could you elaborate on any other tricks or positioning strategies to help with this. The recorded sound which I am getting seems exagerated many fold to what I hear from that same instrument live.
Again, distance is your friend and, yes, mic placement is critical.
Heres a link to a little piece I posted some time ago to get ideas on what to do for tone. I have progressed past the mic'd amp thing since then and also have learned that 2 condensor mics work a whole lot better than the shure 58a for the type of acoustic result recording I had In mind. This is just to give you an Idea of what Im trying to record if youd care to listen.Its called
ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF A PIN
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1644&alid=-1
There is also one there which demonstrates the "string noise" problem when recording acoustically with a condensor mic as well called SRV NoT!!
Both must be redone,(not that they were in any way finished to begin with), and will be much better after reading your Great Thread!
Thank You, Very Much
Bill
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
Once again, a big thank you Harvey. I have found that increasing the distance minimizes the noise but has a cost in the way of some tone.
You are right that practice would really help to overcome a lot of that noise
. Unfortunately Im not one of those gifted players who can achieve a constant benefit from practice. Ive got a little saying which I use a lot.
"PRACTICE MAKE PERMANENT"
and years of being self taught with many bad habits are sometimes my most difficult challenge to progress.
Im going to use 2 mics at a greater distance the next time I record my acoustic. Ill let you know how it works out.
Have a great night
Bill
You are right that practice would really help to overcome a lot of that noise
. Unfortunately Im not one of those gifted players who can achieve a constant benefit from practice. Ive got a little saying which I use a lot."PRACTICE MAKE PERMANENT"
and years of being self taught with many bad habits are sometimes my most difficult challenge to progress.
Im going to use 2 mics at a greater distance the next time I record my acoustic. Ill let you know how it works out.
Have a great night
Bill
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
I had a long talk a while back about this very subject with Rick Ruskin, one of the finest finger pickers on the planet, and he said basically the same thing. It takes practice to remove the squeeks and buzzes - there's really no other way to get rid of them.
Tone is way more elusive. Sounds come from all over the face of the guitar, so it's really hard to find the "best position" as a formula. The "over the shoulder" technique gets the sound closer to what the guitar player normally hears, but it may not be the best placement to fit nicely in a particular track.
Moving the mics out a little bit gives you a more "accurate" picture of the "whole guitar", but sometimes, that's not desirable.
Bottom line: "It depends."
Tone is way more elusive. Sounds come from all over the face of the guitar, so it's really hard to find the "best position" as a formula. The "over the shoulder" technique gets the sound closer to what the guitar player normally hears, but it may not be the best placement to fit nicely in a particular track.
Moving the mics out a little bit gives you a more "accurate" picture of the "whole guitar", but sometimes, that's not desirable.
Bottom line: "It depends."
D
David Artis
Active member
There is no more truth than this. I have been plating for 30 years and can finger pick pretty good. Still can't get all the noise out.
Check out the HR CDII coming out and a song I wrote for my wife. I played it fairly well but still some extra noise.
Check out the HR CDII coming out and a song I wrote for my wife. I played it fairly well but still some extra noise.
W
Wannaplay
New member
Harvey, thanks so much for the info. so far. I have a couple questions re: acoustic guitar recording. For the X/Y method do the mics have to be the same type/model? Can you explain the 3:1 rule? Is this used when a mic is placed at the bridge and one at the 12 fret? Thanks again.
Sen
New member
Wannaplay said:
I ain't an expert, but I think the 3:1 rule means:
If you're micing one source with two mics let's say, if one mic is set up @ 5 inches from the source, the other mic (which would be placed further out from the source) would have to be @ at least 15 inches from the first mic, to avoid phasing problems
I hope that helps....
D
dalon
New member
It's been a while since I read this thread... I have a question about overheads for drums. What method gives the most 'focussed' sound? Like you can point exactly to where that cymbal is located, and not washed out in the stereo field.
I have two MXL 603s by the way.
Thanks, Daan
I have two MXL 603s by the way.
Thanks, Daan
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