How does diaphragm size/polar pattern relate to mic applications?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hot Damn!

OK, I may not have it exactly right, but it sure is fun! Here's what I did:

GT 5sm in figure 8 into Art MP Channel 1
1/4" out to Track 1 in Cubase
XLR out to Art MP Channel 2 with phase reversed
1/4" out to Track 2 in Cubase
C1 in the center into Track 3 in Cubase

Set levels on the MP so that they are identical (which was quite a game), set levels equally into the computer...test in mono- yup the sides pretty much disappear.

Play some Tom Petty-ish stuff from the center position. (Feel like an idiot...) Sounded like doo doo in the cans.

Back in Cubase, panned 1 & 2 hard left and right. Left 3 dead center. Left all levels where they were- roughly equal. Pressed play...

WHOA!!!!! That's some W___I____D____E stereo! And loud as heck. OK, hit the mono switch to see what it does....

:( Drops about 12dB. Is it supposed to do that?

Hmmm...reread Harvey's post several times.

I fiddled with the levels and found that if I keep the side channels lower (about -15dB) I can still get a nice full stereo image that isn't too affected when I sum to mono (and doesn't sound too much like my...ah..."studio" room). I'm not entirely sure what's going on, or even whether I have it right or wrong...

When I mute the center and have the sides panned out I get a really yucky, quiet, thin stereo. I was expecting it to cancel out alomst completely. If I then hit the mono switch it *almost* disappears- there is only a tiny bit left- proabably the inconsistencies in the two signal chains. The meters say it peaks at -22dB but I can hardly hear it.

When I bring the center back the stereo effect is much more noticeable than the tinny sides by themselves so I think its working the way it should, but I don't really have perfect mono compatibility because of my half-arsed signal chaining rig.

I wonder if:

- The figure 8 pattern on the GT isn't tight enough.
- My funky signal chain is causing this volume change in mono.
- It would work better recording more than one instrument.
- I somehow got it perfect and this is normal. (Not likely....)

Yehaw! Another fun evening courtesy of Harvey Gerst. Someday I might even understand some of what I'm doing. ;)

Chris
 
Another amazing post, Harvey - thank you so much! I think I got a leeetle bit closer to understanding it this time... No, seriously, I got it.

A few questions, though:

What are the pros and cons of using the technique you describe above compared with using a matrix box or a preamp that can function as one (such as Joemeek VC7)? If you do the latter, can you control the amount of stereo spread after having recorded it, or are you stuck with the relative levels of the M and S mics?

If you connect a mic to a Y-cable, will it perform as well as it would with just one cable?

Also, what are your opinions on the different ribbon mics mention? Any recommendations?

Thanks again!

/Henrik
 
The matrix box means not having to make up special cables or worry about matching stuff. It just makes life a little easier.

Any good ribbon or figure 8 mic should do a pretty good job. The Coles 4038 is avery good choice and many people like the AKG C414 for M/S. The stereo spread is determined by the level of the M mic relative to the S signal.
 
Harvey
Pardon the interruption of this thread,as I couldnt get access to your email to send this privately.This weekend I transferred from cassette to CD some music from my brother's signed band circa 77.It turns out he also has a clone of the 1/2 inch two track master stored tail out all these years.Do you have a 1/2" 2 track machine?The material is 12 tunes running about 50 minutes.Would two or three hours studio time be enough to transfer this to CD?We are in Ft Worth,so it would be an easy drive up to Sanger.He is afraid of the magnetic oxide coating peeling off the mylar after all these years.Is this idea foolish or perhaps workable?
Tom
 
Although my post here is quite late i would also like to thank Harvey Gerst and all else who so willing gave of themselves so others could benefit and learn from their great wealth of knowledge and experiences

money dont buy this sort of knowledge.

I am forever greatfull i read this whole thread and what i have learnt from this wonderfull effort has covered many things i may have wanted to know and or things i may have asked in the past that i felt may have only been half answered.

Is there anyway such a work like this could be placed alongside
similar topics on other pieces of gear that may cover all sides of the spectrum on recording gear and or related subject matter.

Eg someone could do one of these threads on mic pres or on multi fx or for that matter compressors or reverb units.

In the end we could have something like the homerecording.com encyclopedia of audio where master works such as this can be placed once they are completed all we would need to do is remove all the excess posts and just keep the factual stuff posted in from the author what i mean by that is you would not need to include the q&a posts just the original authors subject matter.

anyway thankyou again Harvey and all the guys
Beautifull work indeed

much thanks

and kind regards

Wayne
Melbourne Australia :)
 
Wow...I just started reading this thread(I've read the first seven pages so far)and by far it contains more information then anything I've ever read on mics.I'm going to takle a break and finish reading it tonite.

Harvey,thank you man!They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks but this old hippie has learned more about mics this afternoon than in the past few years.I think this thread should be required reading for anyone getting into recording.It's very cool that someone with your knowledge and experience would not only share with others but would take the time and effort to teach others.Thank you!!
 
Harvey,
I'm still wondering - what are your reasons for preferring spaced omnis to M-S while recording drums?

Thanks
/Henrik
 
Henrik said:
Harvey,
I'm still wondering - what are your reasons for preferring spaced omnis to M-S while recording drums?

Thanks
/Henrik
Click to expand...
Mainly because:

1. One of our drum rooms is too frigging small to really get a great natural drum sound in.

2. Most of the stuff I do is rock and metal, and spaced omnis or spaced cardioid miking gives me a few more options later during mixdown.

3. It makes the drummer feel more professional when I run 10 channels of drums for a 4 piece rock group. That leaves a channel for the vocal, a channel for bass, and 12 channels for the guitar, which works out about right these days. :D
 
OK, I see, thanks!

A friend of mine just visited a studio where they were recording drums - using no less than 32 mics! Now what's THAT all about!? Well, maybe they were trying to make the drummer feel imoportant. :D

Anyway, I'm also really curious to hear what you think Chris Schaeffer did wrong when trying out the M-S technique (a few posts above).

Cheers
/Henrik
 
What that's all about is massive phase cancellation. Unless it's just a placebo for the drummer and 20 or so aren't plugged into anything. Or maybe they like a bunch of different room mics!
-kp
 
Some engineers are very anal about miking drums. They mic each head (top AND bottom), each cymbal, and then throw some room mics in as well. Most engineers aren't usually that persnickity.
 
Once again I had to bounce this up to make it easier to find.This post should just always be at the top of the page!!Sorry if this bugs anyone but I know some people who want to print it and this makes it easier for them to find.

Peace :D
 
Yo Moderator or powers that be! Any way we can enshrine/permanently save this thread up at the top the way they do over on ProSoundWeb with Mixerman's Ten Commandments, or whatever? What we have here is far too precious to allow it to get buried, and why make Randy keep having to boot it back up? Do we have a consensus?
-kent
 
Randy Yell - Bumpmaster......

Bump it up...

...until you can feel it...

Bump it up.....

Cause you know that you need it.

OK - so I took some liberties bastardizing the song....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top