How Do You Tell A Drummer "You Suck"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dani Pace
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-Get him out of the studio environment and one on one. Offer to buy lunch.
-Go down the "Look I'm your friend" route.
-Tell him most drummers on professional tracks welcome a click track. It's about the song, not the individual's on the song.
-Tell him that you hear him speeding up tempo which effects the overall outcome of the song. Tell him he sounds good soundwise but the tempo thing needs some work.
-Offer up some time to work with him on the areas you think suck.

The idea is to get him to open up to criticism and for you to be friendly. If these are accomplished then the outcomes will be one of the following:

1. He will say, thanks and ask to get in the studio to work on it. With a click track.
2. He will be a jerk, nothing you can do, but he might come around in a few days.
3. He will be a jerk, nothing you can do, and never come around. Hey you were there to be helpful not hurtful.

People that are not open to criticism will never make it to the top.

Last, vocal tone is everything. Keep it kind and concerned.
 
I really doubt that is going to work, nice as the advice seems.

I once lost a friend who *asked me* for my opinion on some music he did. I responded diplomatically but also honestly, very much in the nice guy vein you describe. He became *irate* and didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half. I got the full outraged "I thought you were my friend" routine--and I thought my comments were extremely soft and carefully stated.

This drummer isn't even asking for advice, he's going to have it laid on him. The jury is out on how he'll react, but I'll put my money on him getting defensive and pissed.
 
SonicAlbert said:
... I responded diplomatically but also honestly, very much in the nice guy vein you describe. He became *irate* and didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half. I got the full outraged "I thought you were my friend" routine--and I thought my comments were extremely soft and carefully stated.
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Well to be honest, I'd have to hear his side of the story. Most ppl wouldn't get irate from an honest "come to jesus" conversation.

I still feel that you should make light of the situation and tell him. Don't make a big deal about it and you'll save him the embarrassment.
 
How about taking him to the fanciest restaurant in town and telling him there? :D
 
Mark7 said:
How about taking him to the fanciest restaurant in town and telling him there? :D
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Sheesh... you're trying to tell him he sucks... not trying to GET him to.

;)
 
VSpaceBoy said:
Well to be honest, I'd have to hear his side of the story. Most ppl wouldn't get irate from an honest "come to jesus" conversation.
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Seriously, he asked for *specific* colleague type advice/commentary and I was very, very diplomatic in my response. I realized very quickly that all he wanted to hear was "great job well done, your brilliant". The guy totally flipped out because I didn't give him the exact *validation* he was looking for. His response was completely disproportionate to anything I said, almost to the point of violence.

Some people don't understand the concept that there is "what we do" and then there is "who we are". People like this can be almost impossible to work with because even normal communication that is required in professional work becomes a walk through a minefield of "who I am is what I do" ego.

This is not to say people with huge ego's are necessarily hard to work with. Some extremely egotistical people are fine to work with, because they are good and successful at what they do and not defensive. The problem comes when you have insecure people that aren't good at what they do (but think they are) and you need them to meet standards they are not used to or can't meet. That can get very ugly.
 
Mark7 said:
How about taking him to the fanciest restaurant in town and telling him there? :D
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Really, just what you need is a scene in the best restaurant in town. Besides, aren't those generally reserved for *dates* with that special someone? :p
 
The point I was trying to make is that if the levee is gonna break, at least walk away knowing that you had your best intentions in mind and your friends dignity.

Otherwise, suck it up and shut up. Move along.
 
SonicAlbert said:
Really, just what you need is a scene in the best restaurant in town. Besides, aren't those generally reserved for *dates* with that special someone? :p
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I may not have been being entirely serious.

See also:

Singing telegram

Semaphore.

;)
 
Mark7 said:
See also:

Singing telegram

Semaphore.
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What, no smoke signals?

Or better yet, drum beats. Just make sure they're not in time, or he might not understand them. :D

G.
 
Dani Pace said:
Surely I'm not the only one who has tried to record a drummer who just can't stay on time. This guy is a long time friend so I don't want to hurt his feelings, but I can't stand working with him in the studio. He is a "performance drummer" and does fairly well on stage where slight variations in rythm can be tolerated. He refuses to work with a click track or with any drum loops or even a metronome. I really don't want to loose him as a friend, he is fun to be around and fun to jam with but he really isn't good enough to be a session musician. Anyone got any suggestions for how to let him down easy?
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There are no friends in music.....just rivals, tell the drummer that he sucks and can be replaced with a $99.00 box of electronics( zoom comes to mind )

I've had what I thought were friends and drummers.....drummers always show up late, they seem to think that the world will stop revolving without them, and they always think that they are better than they really are.......shit can him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Bad Drummers... A New Thread for This???

I had a drummer just out of high school...

We were sponsored by a label to record an album. We recorded, then when we went to play our first gig ----- NO @#$%@ DRUMMER !!!

I had a friend in the audience who played the drums pretty well so we grabbed him and HAD TO REWORK EVERY @#$%$#% SONG ON THE SPOT.

What happened to the drummer?

HE SAID HE COULDN'T SHOW UP BECAUSE HE HAD TO FIND A BAG O' GREEN FIRST !!! @#$%#$ :mad:
 
northsiderap said:
I had a drummer just out of high school...

We were sponsored by a label to record an album. We recorded, then when we went to play our first gig ----- NO @#$%@ DRUMMER !!!

I had a friend in the audience who played the drums pretty well so we grabbed him and HAD TO REWORK EVERY @#$%$#% SONG ON THE SPOT.

What happened to the drummer?

HE SAID HE COULDN'T SHOW UP BECAUSE HE HAD TO FIND A BAG O' GREEN FIRST !!! @#$%#$ :mad:
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Yeah, new thread! Just where would you put it? I'd make it a bad band member so we don't just single out drummers. I've had bad bassists, keyboardists, other guitarists, singers... shit I could write a book on them all. However I have a feeling that the majority of the posts would be about drummers. ;)
 
Are you using this drummer as a session cat for paying clients? If so replace him. Especially if the paying clients are what pays the bills!
If this is hobby stuff then deal with it.
 
wx3 said:
I had a drummer in my band who wasn't that great. But I kept him in because we were really good friends and to me that was more important then having a decent drummer. Eventually I kicked him out and now we aren't the best of friends. Now I have no more band, or friend.

It's up to you man.
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He wasn't your true friend. True friends are there forever.

A band is only as good as the drummer.

tim
 
Mark7 said:
Alternatively, purchase a drum machine or some softdrums.

Really, I don't know why most bands bother with drummers these days.

In fact, since the rest of the band's timing probably leaves a little to be desired, why not just get a sequencer and a midi set up (or whatever the modern equivalent is)
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Because my drummer can smoke any drum machine ever. Feel is something you will never get from a drum machine. Improvisation is another.

tim
 
True. But feel and improvisation are unappreciated qualities in modern rock.

Or is that just in the commercial scene?
 
I recently had this same thing happen with the singer in my band. I just told him it was nothing personal but when he is sucking, he will be told about it promptly. He got really pissed and I told him to pack his shit and leave because the band will not tolerate assholes. He changed his tune and all is well.
 
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