how do I limit the signal and then compress

  • Thread starter Thread starter daltyboy
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wow thats really amazing!

i cant believe anybody would post that on the net!

was it really late at night and you didnt want to wake anybody up?

it sounds like a really tired hillbilly who cant sing but can play a little guitar.

i didnt hear anything that couldnt be recorded just as well on a stereo cassette deck with a pair of radio shack condensers!

if that was the best i had i wouldnt even pretend to know anything about recording!!! LOLOLOLOL!!!!

i have to admit though its better than what i expected LOLOLOL!!!
 
Big words coming from a guy who showed up empty handed to his own challenge.
 
Wascal!

If had a company that made a 'wurlabee' and sold it for much money, would you use just because someone made it and you don't know what its for :D ?

Usually you don't use a limiter because someone has build it, but in order to be able to record/mix/play music louder wihtout having to be afraid to get clipping/distortion, right?

Axel
 
Oh yeah I forgot: you seem to be one the guys who keep this flame war in the other thread alive... perhaps you like that ;)

Axel
 
wascal said:
a little light limiting reduces signal peaks does it not?
Click to expand...
It does...


limiting does not raise the noise floor does it?
Click to expand...
It absolutely does - depending on the threshold setting.......


a little light limiting before compression can therefore reduce the dynamic range somewhat without adding noise.
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No... the noise floor will raise, depending on where the threshold is..... if the threshold is 0dB then the noise floor will not change and you limit any signal that exceeds the threshold, but the minute you lower the threshold below 0 dB, the noise floor will change........


Bruce
 
axel -

you seem like a nice person and i dont mean to insult you. switching letters from one syllable to another is one of the first name modifications i look for and "trollveffer" fairly leapt at me at first glance. i couldnt help it!

yes the flame wars. i dont like to flame anyone who hasnt flamed me first. i will joke around a little but most people dont mind. i play with words and try to have a little fun. i come here during mealtimes and on breaks from work. if somebody insults me i feel perfectly free to insult them. no problem! have you ever noticed that there are a lot of people in the forums waiting to pick on whatever new people say? they enjoy contradicting and correcting others even though they are usually not in a position of expertise.

i use a tube limiter because i think it gives me a warm smooth sound. i compress afterward because i like to compress in stages and i like the sound of analog compression better than digital. i watch the gain reduction meters and use the effects sparingly.


bear in mind that the RNC (really nice compressor) that many people are talking about in the forums uses 3 compressors in series to achieve one of its effects! i read about this idea a long time ago and it made sense to me. i have been doing this for years and ive seen no reason to change.

if i had unlimited resources i would buy all very expensive tube gear and would probably limit and compress the exact same way i am doing now.
 
Lots of "big name" engineers track through compressors because they like the color it imparts to the recording. Usually they are $1200-$15,000 compressors though (Distressors to Fairchilds, and everything in between). But that's not to say if you like the sound of an ART you shouldn't use it.

Plenty of other well known engineers don't use compression during tracking.

There is no right or wrong in this case, just personal taste.
 
Look wascal. Nobody here is looking to jump on newbies simply because they are new. But if somebody comes in here spouting a bunch of crap and then wants to argue about it they will usually find some people to argue with.

You seem to know the basics but there is more involved than you are aware of and that is why we are all here, to learn what we didn't know before. Your attitude sucks and I know you live in some little town in Ohio and your some young dude who probably knows more than anybody else there. That is great but the world is a big place and there is always somebody who is a step ahead of you.

If you would like to call a truce that is fine with me. It is silly to start a huge war or whether or not a limiter raises the noise floor (it does, that is a simple known fact).

I apologize if I have offended you but if you want us to respect you we need more than attitude with no experience or proof to back it up. If you would like to help people and learn than welcome to the BBS. If not, than have a nice life.

Travis
 
High wascal!

I don't mind the 'trollveffer' - it somehow sounds weird to me as a 'troll' in german is something like a gremlin/dwarf or so... That doesn't exactly fit my 1.87 m with 93kg, don't you think :D

I think we can come to a conclusion that limiting when done properly will not raise the noise floor noticeably. Sometimes I'm a little smartassy, maybe I worked too long at the university ;) . But it's not as I wanna pick someone -- maybe sometimes it's also a little hard for me to get things expressed the right way in English

Ciao,

Axel
 
axel - that is quite right!

any circuit can lead to degredation of signal and noise. but thats not really what we were talking about.

you could have a limiter without the output gain stage and in this case obviously the limiter would not be raising the noise floor.

i cant understand the problem people are having with this concept!

i have no idea how heavy 93 kg is! you are 6 feet tall? here they use the word troll as somebody who is looking for controversy but with me the controversy was waiting for my very first post when i tried to help somebody!

your english is fine and im sure that the forums are a good way to practice.

so keep practicing!
 
wascal said:
you could have a limiter without the output gain stage and in this case obviously the limiter would not be raising the noise floor.
Click to expand...
Not true at all - it depends COMPLETELY on the threshold setting.......


wascal said:
i cant understand the problem people are having with this concept!
Click to expand...
Well... maybe the fact that you're wrong has something to do with it....... :rolleyes:
 
the threshold sets where the limiting occurs. the cutoff point. how does this raise the noise floor?

if the peaks only are affected then how does this raise the noise floor?

i understand that you have more headroom after limiting and if you then raise the level to take advantage of the greater headroom then the noise level will go up.

but how does the limiting raise the noise floor?
 
Every time we apply say 5dB of gain reduction to a signal by compressing it, the peak level is reduced by 5dB, but the low level sounds remain unchanged. If we now use the Make up Gain control to bring the peaks back up to their previous level, we have to apply 5dB of gain. This means the quieter signals will also be 5dB louder than before. The outcome is that any noise present during the quieter parts of the input signal is also amplified by 5dB.


http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/1996_articles/apr96/compression.html


there! using the make up gain control raises the noise floor. not the compression or limiting process.

looks like blue bear sound is wrong!
 
You are limiting the peaks above the threshold, which changes the signal-to-noise ratio of the signal......

The S/N ratio decreases as you limit more and more which is the same thing as raising the noise floor (ie, the difference between the noise floor and the peak of the loudest signal)........

Looks like I'm NOT wrong......

:rolleyes:


Oh yeah... how do I KNOW that I'm not wrong, you ask??? Experience.........

Try it with any signal that already has poor s/n - like a cassette recording... dump it into you computer.... now just try and limit that signal (with a threshold lower than 0 dB) without making the hiss more apparent.... you CANNOT do it............ period.
 
of course the signal-to-noise-ratio changes with a change in signal peaks(duh).

but this does not mean the noise floor is raised!

s/n ratio and noise floor are two different things(duh).

looks like you are wrong about many things.

the noise floor in your example goes up because the overall level goes up to take advantage of the new headroom. maybe your computer does this automatically. most outboard units have an OUTPUT CONTROL that controls the OUTPUT GAIN STAGE which is where the noise floor is raised. some do it automatically but this is a seperate process from the actual limiting.
 
Gimme a fuckin' break...........

jeap said:
s/n ratio and noise floor are two different things(duh).
Click to expand...
er... no........ the difference between the noise floor and the loudest signal level is EXACTLY the definition of s/n ratio....... especially in the digital realm, since the recording medium is no longer a factor in setting the noise floor....... duh! :rolleyes:

You don't you know as much as you seem to think you do.........

But the others and I have explained it enough times now -- you can believe what you wish... I don't give a crap one way or another!! I'm out of this pointless thread....

mi god, it's as bad as rookies arguing about EQ'ing monitors...............

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
what a big idiot!

you disagree with the statement that s/n ratio and noise floor are not the same thing.

stupid enough by itself.

then you define s/n ratio in terms of noise floor ALONG WITH SOMETHING ELSE namely peak signal level.

so you are saying they are exactly the same thing and then you explain that noise floor is only part of the s/n ratio.

its as if all you have running through your head is a constant DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!!!

:)



you seem to think you know everything but really you are kinda dumb.
 
jeap said:
what a big idiot!

...nonsense snipped.......

you seem to think you know everything but really you are kinda dumb.
Click to expand...
*yawn*

:rolleyes:
 
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