How did they do that?

[punkin]

I heard Crazy Train the other day on the radio while driving home from work(Rany Rhodes version). There are some guitar rythm like riffs where once in a while you'll hear...bear with me...trying to describe a sound...sounds a bit like a metal on metal squeak...sort of like a pinched harmonic but not quite.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

I'm interested in what technique or amp/mic settings would be required to duplicate this sound.

 

[grinder]

If it's during the chorus, then it's harmonics that are slightly muted.At the fifth fret I think.

 

[Aaron Cheney]

Yup.

Another factor in that cool sound is the fact that those rythm guitars are layered about 4 or 5 tracks deep. Randy even double or triple-tracked his leads. Of course, Ozzy always doubled his vocal line too, and that's how he got his unique vocal sound.

In fact, you know that cool part at the beginning of Flying High Again where Ozzy says a line panned hard left, and the he repeats the line panned hard right, and then does it again? That was a mistake. He was supposed to be doubling his vocals but sang in the wrong spot on one take. The producer liked the effect and kept it.

Ever wonder how David Lee Roth could make those incredibly cool sounding screams in all the old Van Halen albums? He doubled them all. That's why, no matter how hard you try, you just can't scream like DLR!


got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

 

[punkin]

So when you say the guitar tracks are double/tripled or more, are they all in phase or is there shift?...or what? Simply doubling the tracks while in phase will only make it sound louder...there's no "effect" in that process.

Please elaborate.

Thanks for the responses gents.

 

[Aaron Cheney]

Well... there's no effect processing being applied per se, but there is most definitely an effect on the sound. It's a production decision.

For example, think of the difference in sound between one distorted guitar playing a rythm part versus two guitars playing the same part panned hard right and hard left. Suddenly you have the proverbial "wall of guitars". Start adding more tracks and you begin to thicken up the sound even more. Phasing can become an issue, so you have to be cautious.

Another example: think of the difference between two voices singing in harmony a la Simon and Garfunkle versus the sound of 200 voices singing the harmony a la Def Leppard, Shania Twain, or any other band produced by Mutt Lange. It's a completely different sound.

And it's important to know that many things you hear on records are things that can only be achieved in the studio.

got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

 

[Aaron Cheney]

And one more thing I forgot...

When you double a part, you will never get an exact duplicate. Ever.


Ever.


That's why it doesn't just "make it louder". It actually adds a natural chorus effect because of the slight differences in timeing, tuning, etc.


got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

 

[matty_boy]

Keep in mind that what Aaron is talking about is actually playing (or singing) the part again for each track, not copying the track.


Matty

 

[punkin]

OK...now I get it...I thought that you meant the tracks were simply duplicated and stacked on top of each other...I tried a little test of my own using SONAR...copy a track...stack it up 3,4 or 5 times...I really didn't hear much difference other than the over all level.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Kelly5150]

OK...now I get it...I thought that you meant the tracks were simply duplicated and stacked on top of each other...I tried a little test of my own using SONAR...copy a track...stack it up 3,4 or 5 times...I really didn't hear much difference other than the over all level.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Actually you can get some good effects just by copying tracks, but add delay on one and pan it left, add another effect on the other and pan in right... you'll hear more separation....

just experiment....