How can I reduce Analog's Tape Hiss?

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timandjes

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After several months of trial & error, (emphasis on error), & using the advice of many of you on this sight, I made my best recording yet this week. I handed the tape out to a few people and their comments were that the tape is very well balanced between vocal & instruments and that the quality is as good as any they've ever heard.... While I appreciate that,... I disagree.. I'm very happy with the vocal/instrument balance and general tonality but still, there's a bit much tape hiss. I know analog is known for a little tape his, but I think I'm getting a little more than I should. I'm not sure if this is a new problem, or if it's been there all along but since I've applied so much of the advice from this sight, I've simply cleaned up everything else so now it's noticeable.

In my Tascam user manual, it says that when an electric instrument with it's own volume control is lined into a track, the trim of that track shouldn't be increased very much; if at all. I've also received advice that tracks should be recorded hot to minimize noise.... Well, when my electric piano is lined in, even with it's volume nearly maxed out, I have to raise the trim of that track quite a bit to get a hot signal. At times when I have to pick one or the other, should I follow the, "don't raise the trim," advice or the, "record a hot signal," advice? I did raise the trim to about mid-way to get the signal occasionally peaking & I'm wondering if that's the source of my extra tape hiss.

Also, advice I've received suggested that with analog, if high eq is needed, it should be used @ the time the individual track is recorded instead of @ mix-down because raising hi eq @ mix-down raises analog's normal tape hiss along with the music. So, that's the way I recorded. Also, I made this recording in a bedroom. Could the less-than-studio-characteristics of that room have attributed to my tape hiss?

Lastly, my Tascam 414 only has only two eq controls for each track, a high & low, unlike the Tascam 424 which also has eq sweep to notch out unwanted frequencies. While I'm trying not to spend any more money for a while.... Could it be that the eq sweep feature or an external equalizer could fix this last little problem of tape hiss?
 
If you're recording on a cassette multi track you'll never get away from the hiss. I've still got an old Tascam 238 laying around the studio with DBX noise reduction and even with a decent front end there's hiss. Cassette=hiss. Sorry.
 
You are recording on the hissiest format but some tips to minimize it.

Definately record as hot as possible. Dont be afraid to push the levels past 0 if they still sound okay. Part of analog tape's advantage is the ability to push it a little.

Get a dedicated preamp or a better mixer. Dont get another casette 4track. Part of the problem is the cheap preamps on those units. When you need to boost the level you want the preamp to be as clean as possible.

I would recomend getting a Mackie if you have direct in/outs on each channel of your 4track. If not then at least get an Audio Buddy or better.

The EQ's on a Mackie will also be much better. You are right about adding high end during tracking but if the preamps are noisy then you are just accentuating that instead of the tape hiss.

If you can, master to a digital format. Then you at least only have tape hiss on your tracks and you are not adding more to your master.
 
As a mastering engineer, I had to deal with tape hiss all the time. One of the things about tape hiss is that it will be very noticeble to you because you're very familiar with the recording and material. I bet 7 out of 10 listeners of your stuff would not even notice it unless you brought it to their attention. (unless it's very blatent...) anywho....

If you can, insert a stereo parametric EQ between your tascam and your mixdown deck. With a parametric EQ, you can specifically target the noise and "notch" it out with out effecting too much of your mix. Most mixer EQ's will be a little too "broad" for noise correction eq. A parametric will not only allow you to target the hiss freq. and the harmonics, but also choose a narrow bandwidth. 3.5k is the general area for tape hiss. then maybe check the upper harmonics around 7k. My goal when dealing with tape hiss wasn't always to get rid of the hiss.. sometimes it just couldn't be done without taking away from the mix. In that case, the goal was to at least make the hiss less noticeable or mask it. Careful notching EQ, side chaining a compressor to compress the offending freq., EQ'ing something else in the mix to stand out a little more....

What are you mixing down to anyway? You could mix down to a Hi-Fi VCR for your master and then make tape dupes from the VCR copy. That way you're only dealing with 2 generations of cassette... your 4 track and the dupe copy.

Your room and equipment have nothing to do with tape hiss. However, your equipment can contribute to other types of hiss.
Getting a Mackie and outboard pre-amps are a bit much overkill if you're recording to a 414.

I'm not too familiar with the 414. Does it have any onboard noise reduction? What about tape speed? My 424 does 3 3/4 IPS (standard cassette speed) and 7 1/2 IPS. At the higher speed and with the onboard dbx noise reduction, I get almost virtually tape hiss free results. anyway, hope that helps.
 
Avoid those trim controls whenever possible. If you're maxing out the volume of your keyboard and it's still not enough, then run it through a clean preamp (M-audio is good) in order to give the instrument the maximum volume boost on the way in.

Use a good clean compressor to maximize the volume going in as well (RNC).
 
I've been mixing down to a dual cassette recorder. I don't use the dub feature to create additional tapes, I mix each tape down directly from the 414 because (I figured??) that would give cleaner results than taking one mixed-down tape and creating copies from it.

I've heard a lot about mixing down to hi-fi VCR's but I haven't tried it yet. (Partly because I'd have to get one)... But, would that indeed give me better results to go from my 414, to the hi-fi, then to the dual cassette, or just straight from the 414 to the dual cassette?

I really don't have the equipment to go to any other format than cassette on my final product right now so what I'm looking for is info on how to make the best of what I've got.

I will, however, spend more if the results are "earth moving" in terms of quality difference...
 
My first real paid recording job was done on a Yamaha 4-Track cassette recorder (back in 1989). We ended up tracking and mixing about 14 tracks by using a Hi-Fi VCR as a mixdown deck. We would record 4 tracks, do a 'Mini-Mix' of those 4 tracks to the VCR, then back to two channels on the 4-Track, add two more tracks, mix to the VCR, back to the 4-track again, etc. Although my recording techniques weren't all that great at the time, we still ended up with a relatively noiseless recording. Tape ran at 3 3/4 ips with DBX NR.

So, a Hi-Fi VCR can really be an excellent tool when using a 4-track cassette recorder, although there's no advantage to copying your material from the 4-track to the VCR, just to go to another cassette format for copying. Using it in your tracking/mixing process will however help keep noise way down.

I just remembered that we even took the Hi-Fi VCR to the tape duplication place and had the bin loop master made right off the VCR. Man, that brings back some memories...Ah, To be young again. ;)
 
Well, if you're mixing down for each copy, it sounds like your culprit may be your dual cassette deck. What's the tape noise like coming straight from the 414? Does your cassette deck have different settings for different tape types? That can make a huge difference. Either way, if your RCA deck is the culprit, there's not much you can do other than replace it.
 
Changing from casette 4track to any digital or larger analog format WILL be an earth shattering difference.
 
Can any of you tell me if this could be part of the problem too.... I went back and listened to each track alone with the other tracks all the way down... To my surprise, the noisy one was the one I least suspected. I would have assumed the noisy track(s) would have been one or both of the mic'ed tracks; either the drums miced with the "miss-nothing" condenser or the SM58 miced vocal track but.... they were virtually noise free.... The hiss was coming solely from the piano track where in no mic @ all was used... hmmmm.... So I got to looking @ my set-up. I'm running a Leem instrument cable from the piano to a direct box with the ground lift switch on. Then, (here's where I think the problem is) I'm running a mic cable from the out of the direct box into the in of the tascam track.

I never put much thought into it until now but I would assume the mic cable isn't ideal as an instrument cable. Would that be correct? Also, the mic cable is about 12 feet longer than I need.

Think if I get a much shorter instrument cable from my direct box to the tascam, I'll improve the hiss?
 
Oh yeah... using a mic cable for an instrument level can cause low levels resulting in cranking your inputs to get level therefore raising the noise floor... good catch... another thing you can do when mixing, is mute unused tracks (in your case, either throw the fader down or flip the input switch) a little tape noise on each track can add up to a lot of tape noise.
 
I’ve haven’t used the 414 or 424. However, my old 246 is virtually silent w/dbx (93 dB S/N). If the dbx works as well on later models it sounds like your noise problem has more to do with gain staging rather than tape hiss.

In addition to the good tips on maximizing input, I also suggest using noise gates on problem signals. I’ve used the Alesis Micro Gate and DBX 463 for years and can recommend those. The “smart gates” such as the Hush line made by Rocktron can be more effective as they decay the high frequencies first before clamping down on the whole signal. :)

-Tim
 
this may be too basic, but have you cleaned the heads,

timandjes said:
Can any of you tell me if this could be part of the problem too.... I went back and listened to each track alone with the other tracks all the way down... To my surprise, the noisy one was the one I least suspected. I would have assumed the noisy track(s) would have been one or both of the mic'ed tracks; either the drums miced with the "miss-nothing" condenser or the SM58 miced vocal track but.... they were virtually noise free.... The hiss was coming solely from the piano track where in no mic @ all was used... hmmmm.... So I got to looking @ my set-up. I'm running a Leem instrument cable from the piano to a direct box with the ground lift switch on. Then, (here's where I think the problem is) I'm running a mic cable from the out of the direct box into the in of the tascam track.

I never put much thought into it until now but I would assume the mic cable isn't ideal as an instrument cable. Would that be correct? Also, the mic cable is about 12 feet longer than I need.

Think if I get a much shorter instrument cable from my direct box to the tascam, I'll improve the hiss?
Click to expand...



and are you using a premium grade of tape? Also, some of you guys will probably know if they need to be deguassed from time to time. Did you buy your unit new? you might want to try your least noisy signal chain to all four tracks, to see if one is notably noiser or hissy-er than the others with exactly the same input.
 
hiss comes from recording the levels not hot enough. you stated your problem in your question. raise the trim when recording your line instruments. always get the levels at zero or maybe even higher. bringing up the volume on low recorded tracks is what is creating your hiss. hiss exists at a low volume level on the tape and when you have to boost your tracks after recording them, that increases the hiss. if you boost them before recording them, then the hiss is quieter.

you should also clean your machine. get rubbing alcohol (as close to 100% as possible) and some q-tips and scrub all of the crap off of the heads and all of the metal parts the tape touches. dont put the alcohol on any plastic or rubber. only metal and the heads.

also, if you have a sound card in your PC, you should mix down to that. that will eliminate a ton of hiss. if you need a free recording program download audacity.

doing all of this will make a bigger difference than spending money on outboard gear.
 
Hooray!

Falken has it absolutely right on this one.

Re the alchohol for cleaning the heads; do NOT use drug-store rubbing alchohol, that stuff invariably has loads of impurities in it. Go to an electronics store or repair shop and get alchohol specifically made for head cleaning. As Falken said, as close to 100% pure as possible; in fact 100% pure is common in quality tape cleaning solutions.

G.
 
Fun with cassette 4 track. Hit the tape really hard so all the red lights light up most of the time (use your ears to see it its ok, not the meters) and when you are mixing cut off the high EQ on things that do not really need high end.

Cassette 4 track can sound great.
 
I'm using a ribbon mic to record acoustic guitar on my 424 mk3, to get any kind of decent sound the I have to push the trim past 12'oclock, which puts the levels into the red. It doesn't sound distorted with headphones or monitors,, but if you turn the monitor volume trim knob up, it starts to distort.

I'm just worried if I record into red levels, will my mixdown turn out shit? Will it mean once I've burnt the track to cd, that listening to the track loud will also be distorted...maaaan recordings tough :(
 
LooneyTunez said:
My first real paid recording job was done on a Yamaha 4-Track cassette recorder (back in 1989). We ended up tracking and mixing about 14 tracks by using a Hi-Fi VCR as a mixdown deck. We would record 4 tracks, do a 'Mini-Mix' of those 4 tracks to the VCR, then back to two channels on the 4-Track, add two more tracks, mix to the VCR, back to the 4-track again, etc. Although my recording techniques weren't all that great at the time, we still ended up with a relatively noiseless recording. Tape ran at 3 3/4 ips with DBX NR.

So, a Hi-Fi VCR can really be an excellent tool when using a 4-track cassette recorder, although there's no advantage to copying your material from the 4-track to the VCR, just to go to another cassette format for copying. Using it in your tracking/mixing process will however help keep noise way down.

I just remembered that we even took the Hi-Fi VCR to the tape duplication place and had the bin loop master made right off the VCR. Man, that brings back some memories...Ah, To be young again. ;)
Click to expand...

Flashback! Tascam 644 4 track cassette reduction mixing (as they called it at EMI) to VCR Hi Fi (Pro Grade with input meters) and then back to the 644, two open tracks! Freakin nirvana! Last pass and master was to the Hi Fi, and I would record to Cassette for the car etc from there...The TASCAM had DBX (worked pretty good) and the Hi Fi was very quiet. Really got some warm, round musical recordings. Always pushed the meters on the TASCAM to periodic overload.

I had about 30 finished songs on one VHS tape. One of my kids accidentely erased about 1/2 of it (Nicolodeon)and then the VCR chewed up what remained! Oh, the humanity!
 
I "like" tape hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!:D
 
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