C
chuckduffy
Well-known member
It's kind of hard to argue with your logic - so I will just quit while I'm not too far behind
It's kind of hard to argue with your logic - so I will just quit while I'm not too far behind
J
jaynm26
New member
Rayc, funny guy? Minute way of showing boorish intelligence who spent the last few days searching through old english literature and a thesaurus to come bless this post with a rather intriguing insight into an individual he has no known information nor correct lore of, but would rather spread futile propaganda. And for what gain? To give educated advice/input? To show that google works even for infant minded individuals? Oh no! just to bash a post. Did you feel indirectly "un-mentioned" as this post addresses professionals? Or did just boredom with life strike upon you such audio chivalry to come defend the amateurs input? I would only feel ill towards these statements if you were 8. Again childish and pointless...
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
The point is not to quit. 
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Ok there jay, chill out. You are the one who pulled the first stab. No reason to fight fire with fuel.
This is a place for helping each other, and a bit of humor at times. Direct puffing up and getting nasty is not what we are here for.
Truce time.
J
jaynm26
New member
As he would know my full intentions with the information presented from my questions. As stated I have been in several mastering studio's. I also have worked in 2. I'll admit my experience is not extensive. In my short career I have came across many philosophies behind the art i just simply asked for some others from PRO's is that a crime!!! Titled, "Hot Seat For Mastering Eng"...Um that would mean Pro's, or am I wrong? Not, "I need help building a Project Studio". Was I incorrect to ask philosophy and technique, equipment of mastering on a mastering thread? (Sorry guys I was looking for the, "ask the pro's thread could you point me in the right direction!")... SERIOUSLY! Side note: Project studio and a Real Mastering setup dont even go together not even in theory. Most amateurs in a "Project Studio" wouldn't even know to ask such detailed questions, not even an amateur mastering eng either because their knowledge would be based purely on plugins and near-field monitoring. Again Hot Seat for "Mastering Eng" not Mastering "Wanna be's". Not one question was invalid, incorrect or misinterpreted...and you question my intention for exalted knowledgeable information? I should question your intentions period. Another "offed" individual. Do people have that low of self esteem to where soon as a title goes up distinguishing one individual from another the ones who not included in that class have to start throwing temper tantrums and waist time in their life to post comments of their distress and disdain to not have their opinions included? Are you upset because of the validity of your input or your title/position? REALLY!! GET OVER IT! Like I said if you feel you have good advice please do post i will take heed. I will not, am not, going to change the title PERIOD. You feel disrespected that is of your own conscious not mine. (I made the title to keep dummies out, think im getting more in. Perhaps if i would have made the title "Idiots only" non would have shown up)
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jaynm26
New member
OMG lol, jimmy have you read the entire thread? I was not the first to throw the first stone. And I will not say who go read. This is so dumb! seriously. I wll be posting the next questions soon. Thx everyone Truce accepted
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Wow dood.. Seriously?
Just my opinion, but if you wish to learn from others, you may want to chill out a bit. Not everyone is going to give you free info, without a bit of jovial stabs.
This was the first derail of the thread I saw, and it was from you:
"* To address the increasing comments of this being a professionals only thread*
Had no intentions to undermine anyone's intelligence. I simply wanted information from seasoned veterans of the art to get "well experienced" advice without having to cypher through ideas and philosophy of a person who is not qualified and who renders uneducated, and "self taught tricks" of information. Being studious to the questions and giving full respect to them who answered I did not want to have to toy with "audio childish ignorance".
If I did not want expert advice from experts I would would have just gone to youtube. Now since you so delightedly spent the time to read the title and express your tarted feelings speak no ill will intended. If you feel your advice is well suited and you are not a professional or highly acclaimed eng please give your answers."
I am not sure where that came from. Maybe the mods deleted something? You sound like you are arguing with aliens at this point.
Really man. Give yourself a breath, maybe smoke something. It is really not in your best interest to be all mad and stuff. Chill dood.
Just my opinion, but if you wish to learn from others, you may want to chill out a bit. Not everyone is going to give you free info, without a bit of jovial stabs.
This was the first derail of the thread I saw, and it was from you:
"* To address the increasing comments of this being a professionals only thread*
Had no intentions to undermine anyone's intelligence. I simply wanted information from seasoned veterans of the art to get "well experienced" advice without having to cypher through ideas and philosophy of a person who is not qualified and who renders uneducated, and "self taught tricks" of information. Being studious to the questions and giving full respect to them who answered I did not want to have to toy with "audio childish ignorance".
If I did not want expert advice from experts I would would have just gone to youtube. Now since you so delightedly spent the time to read the title and express your tarted feelings speak no ill will intended. If you feel your advice is well suited and you are not a professional or highly acclaimed eng please give your answers."
I am not sure where that came from. Maybe the mods deleted something? You sound like you are arguing with aliens at this point.
Really man. Give yourself a breath, maybe smoke something. It is really not in your best interest to be all mad and stuff. Chill dood.
J
jaynm26
New member
100% indirect
karumba
New member
i'm running the mytek 8x192.
rayc
retroreprobate
Dear jayn,
I don't use search engines to inform my writing. I don't use arcane literature or thesuari to inform my commentary in HR either.
I don't need to as I'm a pompous git with a minor in occasional selfdeprecation.
I certainly wouldn't have entertained spending more than a few minutes responding to your original post. You flatter yourself if you feel I'd spent time, energy or any emotional reserves on you.
Boorish intelligence & infant minded individual? I wouldn't tread on your turf mate. You've that covered in spades.That's the sense of grandiosity you invested in your thread starter.
Around my way we'd have renamed you after a 1st encounter, probably with a bit of nominative determinism: Wayne Kerr for example.
When your syntax improves we can chat.
By the way boorish isn't usually used in concert with intellegence and isn't really an adjective of that noun either.
I don't use search engines to inform my writing. I don't use arcane literature or thesuari to inform my commentary in HR either.
I don't need to as I'm a pompous git with a minor in occasional selfdeprecation.
I certainly wouldn't have entertained spending more than a few minutes responding to your original post. You flatter yourself if you feel I'd spent time, energy or any emotional reserves on you.
Boorish intelligence & infant minded individual? I wouldn't tread on your turf mate. You've that covered in spades.That's the sense of grandiosity you invested in your thread starter.
Around my way we'd have renamed you after a 1st encounter, probably with a bit of nominative determinism: Wayne Kerr for example.
When your syntax improves we can chat.
By the way boorish isn't usually used in concert with intellegence and isn't really an adjective of that noun either.
CrowsofFritz
Flamingo!
Jay, your posts......
Don't be angry man!
Don't be angry man!
J
jaynm26
New member
I know it is lol, but im not changing the title because i know its true intentions. Its a Hot Seat for MASTERING ENG. Not "Project Studio starters" If it were I would exclude pro's (smart huh?). If I did not want the mind of a pro on the questions I would have said that. You know what! Just take me to jail already, better yet stone me! If you feel no satisfaction from either a firing squad will do.
- Ex. Questions for a project studio "mastering eng" So whats in your mastering chain or normal workflow for say like a hip hop track? L2. Whats your philosophy on the use of mid-side technique? L2. Converters you use to rout to outboard? None, L2... Come on, and yall know it happens . I chose to have a filter to get great info but its a crime i understand now.
- Ex. Questions for a project studio "mastering eng" So whats in your mastering chain or normal workflow for say like a hip hop track? L2. Whats your philosophy on the use of mid-side technique? L2. Converters you use to rout to outboard? None, L2... Come on, and yall know it happens . I chose to have a filter to get great info but its a crime i understand now.
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jaynm26
New member
Anyway back to the questions
1.) What is your view on stem mastering?
2.) What is your work flow; track setup/routing of your stem mastering? (Ex. spilt stems in drums, bass, vocals, highs ect)
3.) Do you feel stem mastering takes away from the true art, as in the past the option was not available?
4.) Do you feel vinyl recordings are a waits of time in the digital age?
5.) Even though you know the do & donts of the "Loudness Wars" do you ignore them to meet commercially acceptable standards?
6.) Samplitude vs Wave Lab 7? (You can only pick one, and please give a few opinions of why one over the other)
1.) What is your view on stem mastering?
2.) What is your work flow; track setup/routing of your stem mastering? (Ex. spilt stems in drums, bass, vocals, highs ect)
3.) Do you feel stem mastering takes away from the true art, as in the past the option was not available?
4.) Do you feel vinyl recordings are a waits of time in the digital age?
5.) Even though you know the do & donts of the "Loudness Wars" do you ignore them to meet commercially acceptable standards?
6.) Samplitude vs Wave Lab 7? (You can only pick one, and please give a few opinions of why one over the other)
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
1) Personally I hate it. But sometimes it's a necessary evil.
2) Same as anything else - "It depends" - But usually stem tweaking (if I can help it) is done digitally and then routed out as one stereo output through the garden.
3) Eh, I almost always mixed to stems (this is back in the 80's -- It's been available a lot longer than digital...). That said, no doubt plenty of times these days it's used as a crutch on good days and an excuse for bad monitoring chains and engineers that can't just commit to something on bad days.
4) I still treat nearly every project as if its next stop was the lathe. I'm not a "vinyl nut" (although I certainly enjoy it occasionally and I probably have more 180-200g half-speed cuts than regular stuff) but the physical limitations of vinyl (and there is a certain amount of subjectivity in this), IMO, made for a better sounding recording. Not that vinyl was the reason - (and there's the rub - was vinyl the catalyst?), but the simple physical properties prevented things like having the "anchor" of the low end off to the sides or having phase issues in the low frequencies or excessive sibilance and the like -- Things that are somewhat commonplace on a lot of recordings made by "less seasoned" engineers.
A recording had to "deserve" being put to vinyl. It didn't have to be amazing or anything, but some of the stuff that's out there these days, you'd just have a stylus skipping across the surface. And go figure, those are the ones that were "Ozoned" or otherwise seriously messed up somehow.
5) Yes/no. The loudness war is a pissing match between artists and labels. The listening public (A) never asked for it and (B) would probably be absolutely shocked if they knew what they were missing.
If I don't do what the client wants, I'm not going to have clients for long. Sure, I'd love to find some niche market where I'm doing nothing but Chesky-type recordings (where it's all about sound quality & purity and NEVER about volume) but that isn't likely to happen. Till then, I (we) do what I can to "limit the damage" (for lack of a better term). Gear that handles absolutely obscene signal voltages without (sonically) falling apart, converters calibrated to bring those voltages back to something more reasonable for the purpose, etc., etc.
6) I won't only pick one. 95% of the time, I use Samplitude. The other 5%, WaveLab is like a "Swiss Army" knife application. I need both. If it makes a difference, every single project is processed and routed through Samplitude. But WaveLab needs to be there for -- things that might come up. I'm convinced that you could open a photograph as an audio file with WaveLab if you find the right settings (and they're setting that you can actually tweak in WL as you can't in any other program I know of).
The majority of the time when I'm working on my bike, I can use sockets, box-end or open-end wrenches. But when I'm working on the clutch plates, it's an 11/16", box-end, deep-well wrench without exception. There is no other "right" tool for that task.
I far prefer the workflow and DSP of the Samplitude/Sequoia family. But that's me -- I know plenty of people who prefer WaveLab also. In either case, there will always be a reason for me to have both.
2) Same as anything else - "It depends" - But usually stem tweaking (if I can help it) is done digitally and then routed out as one stereo output through the garden.
3) Eh, I almost always mixed to stems (this is back in the 80's -- It's been available a lot longer than digital...). That said, no doubt plenty of times these days it's used as a crutch on good days and an excuse for bad monitoring chains and engineers that can't just commit to something on bad days.
4) I still treat nearly every project as if its next stop was the lathe. I'm not a "vinyl nut" (although I certainly enjoy it occasionally and I probably have more 180-200g half-speed cuts than regular stuff) but the physical limitations of vinyl (and there is a certain amount of subjectivity in this), IMO, made for a better sounding recording. Not that vinyl was the reason - (and there's the rub - was vinyl the catalyst?), but the simple physical properties prevented things like having the "anchor" of the low end off to the sides or having phase issues in the low frequencies or excessive sibilance and the like -- Things that are somewhat commonplace on a lot of recordings made by "less seasoned" engineers.
A recording had to "deserve" being put to vinyl. It didn't have to be amazing or anything, but some of the stuff that's out there these days, you'd just have a stylus skipping across the surface. And go figure, those are the ones that were "Ozoned" or otherwise seriously messed up somehow.
5) Yes/no. The loudness war is a pissing match between artists and labels. The listening public (A) never asked for it and (B) would probably be absolutely shocked if they knew what they were missing.
If I don't do what the client wants, I'm not going to have clients for long. Sure, I'd love to find some niche market where I'm doing nothing but Chesky-type recordings (where it's all about sound quality & purity and NEVER about volume) but that isn't likely to happen. Till then, I (we) do what I can to "limit the damage" (for lack of a better term). Gear that handles absolutely obscene signal voltages without (sonically) falling apart, converters calibrated to bring those voltages back to something more reasonable for the purpose, etc., etc.
6) I won't only pick one. 95% of the time, I use Samplitude. The other 5%, WaveLab is like a "Swiss Army" knife application. I need both. If it makes a difference, every single project is processed and routed through Samplitude. But WaveLab needs to be there for -- things that might come up. I'm convinced that you could open a photograph as an audio file with WaveLab if you find the right settings (and they're setting that you can actually tweak in WL as you can't in any other program I know of).
The majority of the time when I'm working on my bike, I can use sockets, box-end or open-end wrenches. But when I'm working on the clutch plates, it's an 11/16", box-end, deep-well wrench without exception. There is no other "right" tool for that task.
I far prefer the workflow and DSP of the Samplitude/Sequoia family. But that's me -- I know plenty of people who prefer WaveLab also. In either case, there will always be a reason for me to have both.
karumba
New member
1.) its a good approach if there is no budget for a dedicated mixing-engineer. i rather master from stems than a bad mix (which could be improved much by stem-mastering from my experience).
2.) i'm requesting the stems on a per-song basis, depending on the elements of the song. the stems are then mixed ITB & then i'm having a combination of serial & parallel chains of my outboard (EQs & multiband serial, compression & tape FX all parallel to the EQed signal of the serial chain). its a method developed by my friend dan suter (swiss based mastering engineer). maybe you could call it the michael brauer method for mastering.
3.) maybe yes. i would prefer to work on mixes from a good mixing engineer, but i can understand that this is not always possible. we have to get the best out of the material, no matter what is needed, don't we?
5.) if the client wants a super-hot master, i should provide it. some mixes (good mixes) are fine beeing mastered hot, but some mixes can not handle a loud mastering. then job is to get it loud enough without destroying too much (or better trying to convince the client that it doesn't make sense).
6.) reaper ;-) because of the workflow & the inbuild DDP2 support.
i've used samplitude before for many many years. i worked with it when most of the engineers didn't know about it & when it was called "SEKD red roaster". SAM is nice, but i like the workflow of reaper much better.
i've never liked the workflow of wavelab.
2.) i'm requesting the stems on a per-song basis, depending on the elements of the song. the stems are then mixed ITB & then i'm having a combination of serial & parallel chains of my outboard (EQs & multiband serial, compression & tape FX all parallel to the EQed signal of the serial chain). its a method developed by my friend dan suter (swiss based mastering engineer). maybe you could call it the michael brauer method for mastering.
3.) maybe yes. i would prefer to work on mixes from a good mixing engineer, but i can understand that this is not always possible. we have to get the best out of the material, no matter what is needed, don't we?
5.) if the client wants a super-hot master, i should provide it. some mixes (good mixes) are fine beeing mastered hot, but some mixes can not handle a loud mastering. then job is to get it loud enough without destroying too much (or better trying to convince the client that it doesn't make sense).
6.) reaper ;-) because of the workflow & the inbuild DDP2 support.
i've used samplitude before for many many years. i worked with it when most of the engineers didn't know about it & when it was called "SEKD red roaster". SAM is nice, but i like the workflow of reaper much better.
i've never liked the workflow of wavelab.
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
I do my masterization on NS-10s powered by a Peavey guitar amp in my car.
The tones I'm achieving are mind-blowing.
Cheers
The tones I'm achieving are mind-blowing.
Cheers
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
Oh, and on the topic of stems...
It's a technique that has come about in an attempt to correct bad mixing. Period. And why stop there? Why not just have the ME mix the whole album, then? I personally also hate the WHOLE concept of stem mastering. If you're a good mix engineer, there is no need for it and if you're a good mastering engineer, you already know that. I can understand if you're dealing with nitwits all the time that have no idea what they're doing but in that case I would suggest marketing yourself to some higher quality clientèle.
I also ABHOR the "take everything off the master bus" instruction to mix engineers by SOME mastering engineers. I can understand if I'm a noob that just slaps all he can on there willy nilly, but I'm not, and if I put something on the master bus it has a PURPOSE and a TONAL FUNCTION. If I think it sounds good, I will not oblige. Period.
Rant over.
Proceed as normal.
Cheers
It's a technique that has come about in an attempt to correct bad mixing. Period. And why stop there? Why not just have the ME mix the whole album, then? I personally also hate the WHOLE concept of stem mastering. If you're a good mix engineer, there is no need for it and if you're a good mastering engineer, you already know that. I can understand if you're dealing with nitwits all the time that have no idea what they're doing but in that case I would suggest marketing yourself to some higher quality clientèle.
I also ABHOR the "take everything off the master bus" instruction to mix engineers by SOME mastering engineers. I can understand if I'm a noob that just slaps all he can on there willy nilly, but I'm not, and if I put something on the master bus it has a PURPOSE and a TONAL FUNCTION. If I think it sounds good, I will not oblige. Period.
Rant over.
Proceed as normal.
Cheers
J
jaynm26
New member
Thanks for all the responses, Mo Facta seems to pioneer the DIY movement. Mastering with NS 10 with a Peavy Gtr Amp in the Car? What is your set up like, how are the connections wired?
ido1957
9K Gold Member
I do my masterization on NS-10s powered by a Peavey guitar amp in my car.
The tones I'm achieving are mind-blowing.
Cheers
I'll have to try that sometime....
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
Obviously my facetiousness was not perceived.
Or maybe I'm missing yours? ha ha
Cheers
Or maybe I'm missing yours? ha ha
Cheers