Hosed by Repair Shop

starbuck26

starbuck26

New member
or at least I think I was.

Here's the deal:
My Hot Rod DeVille was having some kind of weird static/popping noises. I consulted the trusty Hot Rod Owner's Guide and it said this:

An issue that commonly pops up in Hot Rods is the Plate Load Problem. These amps sometimes develop a loud intermitten crackle/static that's mainly caused by the 82K plate load resistor of the phase inverter (R57). Sometimes this resistor will come completely "open," or, in other words, it will internally break into two. This results in a dramatic loss of volume, as only one power tube is amplifying, and a terrible sounding break up even when the amp is supposed to be clean (i.e. severe crossover distortion). You can check for this by measuring the voltage on both sides of R57. If there's several hundred volts on one side, and zero volts on the other, then we've found the problem. If the resistor only partially fractures, then a crackle/static appears.
No need to worry if your amp is suffering from these problems, this fix is very inexpensive and simple. You'll need only to order the correct parts and replace them. Most techs go ahead and replace every plate load (R4, R11, R16, R22, R57, R58), which may be a good idea.
When asked about the problem a Fender representative said, "we had a vendor problem with these resistors. The problem would cause the resistors to eventually hair-line fracture and open under normal operating conditions. The vendor has since analyzed and corrected the problem with their process."

So my amp is covered under the factory warrantee, meaning I have to use a Fender accredited shop, but it'll be free. Which means that I can't go to the local amp genius working out of his garage, I gotta bring it in to this service center.

I bring it down there. I explain the problem. I read them the description of the problem. I am SURE it is the plate load resistors. I tell them very specifically that if they think it's any other problem I want them to call me before working on it. Meaning... if it's a tube related problem, NOT under warrantee, I want the amp back and bring it to my trusty guy.

They have it for two weeks. I call today asking if it's ready yet. He said yeah it's been ready for days (a phone call woulda been nice... :rolleyes:). Said it'll cost me $80. I said it's under warrantee, and he said "the warrantee only covers the tubes for 90 days."

The fucker replaced two power tubes AS WELL AS my plate load resistors. Why? They were old, I guess. . I have two brand new JJs sitting at my practice space waiting to be installed and biased by my trusty guy. So I say NFW. I'm not paying for it. He tells me I have to call tomorrow and talk to his boss.

I KNEW IT. That's the thing. When I dropped it off there I JUST KNEW they were gonna fuck me. I'm going to tell the manager to keep his tubes and give me my amp back. I don't even know what he put in there yet... could be Groove Tubes... Sovteks... This shit MATTERS.... right?

Is that reasonable? :confused:
 
starbuck26 said:
or at least I think I was.

Here's the deal:
My Hot Rod DeVille was having some kind of weird static/popping noises. I consulted the trusty Hot Rod Owner's Guide and it said this:

An issue that commonly pops up in Hot Rods is the Plate Load Problem. These amps sometimes develop a loud intermitten crackle/static that's mainly caused by the 82K plate load resistor of the phase inverter (R57). Sometimes this resistor will come completely "open," or, in other words, it will internally break into two. This results in a dramatic loss of volume, as only one power tube is amplifying, and a terrible sounding break up even when the amp is supposed to be clean (i.e. severe crossover distortion). You can check for this by measuring the voltage on both sides of R57. If there's several hundred volts on one side, and zero volts on the other, then we've found the problem. If the resistor only partially fractures, then a crackle/static appears.
No need to worry if your amp is suffering from these problems, this fix is very inexpensive and simple. You'll need only to order the correct parts and replace them. Most techs go ahead and replace every plate load (R4, R11, R16, R22, R57, R58), which may be a good idea.
When asked about the problem a Fender representative said, "we had a vendor problem with these resistors. The problem would cause the resistors to eventually hair-line fracture and open under normal operating conditions. The vendor has since analyzed and corrected the problem with their process."

So my amp is covered under the factory warrantee, meaning I have to use a Fender accredited shop, but it'll be free. Which means that I can't go to the local amp genius working out of his garage, I gotta bring it in to this service center.

I bring it down there. I explain the problem. I read them the description of the problem. I am SURE it is the plate load resistors. I tell them very specifically that if they think it's any other problem I want them to call me before working on it. Meaning... if it's a tube related problem, NOT under warrantee, I want the amp back and bring it to my trusty guy.

They have it for two weeks. I call today asking if it's ready yet. He said yeah it's been ready for days (a phone call woulda been nice... :rolleyes:). Said it'll cost me $80. I said it's under warrantee, and he said "the warrantee only covers the tubes for 90 days."

The fucker replaced two power tubes AS WELL AS my plate load resistors. Why? They were old, I guess. . I have two brand new JJs sitting at my practice space waiting to be installed and biased by my trusty guy. So I say NFW. I'm not paying for it. He tells me I have to call tomorrow and talk to his boss.

I KNEW IT. That's the thing. When I dropped it off there I JUST KNEW they were gonna fuck me. I'm going to tell the manager to keep his tubes and give me my amp back. I don't even know what he put in there yet... could be Groove Tubes... Sovteks... This shit MATTERS.... right?

Is that reasonable? :confused:
Click to expand...

That is more than reasonable. No way you should pay for that. Not a freaking dime. They need to call you before they do any work that's not covered under warranty.
 
What he said. If you signed anything that says you're responsible for any fees, they might have a case. You don't have to pay for anything you did not authorize "in writing".
Ask to see where you authorized putting in new tubes. Then call the BBB, it really does light a fire.
 
Never presume to tell a tech how to fix anything. It's their job to decide how to fix things. I've been to the website you're talking about. There's a lot of useful info there. Doesn't make you a tech.

It IS possible your amp needed new tubes. If no other work was done and your amp is fixed, pay the man. If he made any OTHER repairs, you could make a case that the warranty defect caused the tubes to go bad prematurely, they can create warranty adjustment claims for that.

As I said before, he cannot do customer-pay work without your approval.
 
mikemorgan said:
Never presume to tell a tech how to fix anything. It's their job to decide how to fix things. I've been to the website you're talking about. There's a lot of useful info there. Doesn't make you a tech.

It IS possible your amp needed new tubes. If no other work was done and your amp is fixed, pay the man. If he made any OTHER repairs, you could make a case that the warranty defect caused the tubes to go bad prematurely, they can create warranty adjustment claims for that.

As I said before, he cannot do customer-pay work without your approval.
Click to expand...

Well, I think considering starbuck was planning on replacing the tubes himself, had specifically asked them to call him before doing anything to them, and that this isn't his normal shop so it's not worth it to eat the fee to maintain a good relationship, I think he's got grounds to argue against it.

On an itemized basis, what's the $80 for? Parts and labor should be covered by the warranty, so did they charge you $80 for tubes?

Also, +1 to what shop this was. I'm curious.
 
Just post their phone number.

We'll take care of the rest.

I'm out of work and don't have anything better to do than bitch out unscrupulous people that do have jobs.

:D
 
To be fair, I'm not going to tell you what shop it was until I have a conversation with the shop manager tomorrow. I'd like to hear what the manager has to say before sicking the dogs on him... It wasn't Aztech, though.

It is quite possible that my amp needs new tubes... I knew that they were getting to the point where they needed to be replaced... if they had called I would have brought them the tubes I wanted, or just said fix the other parts and I'll have my guy do the tubes. It's like dropping off a guitar to have the pickups changed, coming back and having the tech say: "Your strings were old so I changed them to .13s and gave you a setup. I chose those strings because they're what I like best."


an itemized basis, what's the $80 for? Parts and labor should be covered by the warranty, so did they charge you $80 for tubes?
Click to expand...

I can only assume that they're charging me for the tubes and the labor; but, like I said, me and Mr. Manager will work this out tomorrow.

I'll keep you posted.
 
I agree with arcaxis, and that's probably the truth. But they should tell you about any charges up front, not after the fact.
 
Insist that they remove the tubes and return the amplifier with the original tubes.

If they refuse, do not take the amplifier back.

Go home and file a complaint online with the BBB. Do not go into detail about the boring details of tube amplifiers and hairline fractures in resistors - keep it simple. "The repair shop did work that was not authorized, replaced parts without authorization, and discarded my original parts without authorization (if that's what they say happened). I rely on this equipment to earn money - their dishonest tactics are costing me in lost business." (Because you do gig for money, right? :)

Then call Fender and tell them about the tricks that this guy is pulling IN THEIR NAME as a licensed repair shop and ask Fender to call the store and have a talk. I have no idea if this will work or be a waste of time.

The BBB is very familiar with this type of crap from auto mechanics - the more your complaint looks like an auto mechanic type of issue, the more effective they'll be.

Best of luck.
 
arcaxis said:
If the tubes that were in there headed down hill and he did replace resistors in the plate circuit or nearby, in order to test/check the amp out he may have needed to put fresh tubes in to get correct reference measurements. I would assume that would be the only way that he could be assured the amp was fixed properly, being delivered to you in working condition, and get reimbursed from Fender for the part that was a warranty repair. I'm guessing this may be what you hear from Mr. Manager.
Click to expand...

And if nobody called to get permission to install new tubes and do the job properly, they are in the wrong. They incorrectly assumed that the customer didn't already own the new tubes and charged him for new parts. All they had to do was call and say, "We gotta put new tubes in it." He would have brought them his tubes and been a happy customer.

Instead? This crap. Welcome to the economic recession - we'll screw anybody for a nickel.

Please post the name of this shop online unless you end up 100% satisfied with their work.
 
I'm headed in there tomorrow morning and certainly will report on the results. Like I said, I only spoke to a shop assistant and will speak with the manager tomorrow. I'll let you guys know the shop name once I get the full story.

I assume you're correct, Arcaxis, but I'll find out the whole story. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
 
RejectionNinja said:
And if nobody called to get permission to install new tubes and do the job properly, they are in the wrong. They incorrectly assumed that the customer didn't already own the new tubes and charged him for new parts. All they had to do was call and say, "We gotta put new tubes in it." He would have brought them his tubes and been a happy customer.

Instead? This crap. Welcome to the economic recession - we'll screw anybody for a nickel.

Please post the name of this shop online unless you end up 100% satisfied with their work.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.They should've called to let you know if it needed new tubes.Even if they needed to install new tubes to verify their work with new resistors.They had your amp for two weeks.Surely they could've left you a two minute message to call them.
 
Sometimes the noise you describe is simply a loose or dirty tube socket. The plate resistor issue is a Fender design flaw. You'd think after over 50 years of making similar amp designs, that they would get it right. (consumers paying the cost of corporate bean counters cutting corners to save $$$).

Regardless the shop should NOT have performed unauthorized work. I'd demand they return your amp with the original tubes. If they refuse, do as advised, contact the BBB, and take them to small claims court. Although you may not be able to recover any labor costs.
 
About $35 with tax seems pretty reasonable for replacement tubes for a fender...so he might not have incurred any labor costs...so likely the manager will do the right thing here and waive the charges.
 
actually, another flaw in that amp which I've had to fix on mine repeatedly is fractured solder joints on the input jacks or the ribbon cables connecting the preamp and power amp sections. That'll cause the same type noises.
 
arcaxis said:
If the tubes that were in there headed down hill and he did replace resistors in the plate circuit or nearby, in order to test/check the amp out he may have needed to put fresh tubes in to get correct reference measurements. I would assume that would be the only way that he could be assured the amp was fixed properly, being delivered to you in working condition, and get reimbursed from Fender for the part that was a warranty repair. I'm guessing this may be what you hear from Mr. Manager.
Click to expand...

That actually makes a fair amount of sense.

I'd be a little upset that they didn't tell you before making these changes, all the same, but that's a plausible reason (especially if this failure seriously damaged one of the tubes).
 
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