Hooking Up A Drum Machine To A Sound Module

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mcurran

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Hooking Up A Drum Machine To A Sound Module

hi Wizards,

I've purchased a Roland SC-8850 Sound Canvas Sound Module and it works great with the Cakewalk Express sequencing software and my computer.

I've added a Roland (Boss) DR-770 Drum Machine to the set up, but cannot seem to
get it to sync up with the Cakewalk Sequencer.

I've got a Midi cable running from the Sound Canvas Out to the DR-770 Midi In. I have the DR-770 Midi switch set to Midi Channel 10. (which just blinks for some
reason)

Now I play my sequencer and the drum machine is not triggered by the sequencer.

Do i need to have a cable go from my
dumb keyboard trigger into my compuer?

That's what the Music Store said, but that
doesn't make any sense, since the keyboard
itself is only triggering musical notes,
not Midi Clock info.

Or do I need to set the Cakewalk software up somehow?

Right now I have the drums on the software set to Midi Channel 10.

Dear lordy this is confusing.

Thanks

The Unwise One
 
Got a house call the other day with a similar problem. An SB Live and CW Pro Audio 9 hooked to a Yamaha DTX and full electronic drum kit.
CW can record from the kit through the DTX MIDI out but the sequences in CW won't trigger the sounds on the DTX. We didn't have another test synth to see if the MIDI out cable was working at all. The MIDI sequences play fine on the SB Live synth thru the computer speakers.
My Rx:
A MIDI interface like the MIDIMAN or Music Quest stuff. Under $100, they'll allow you to have (at least) two ins and two outs which is handy.
BTW: How do ya like the 8850 sounds?
Are you a member of SCUG?
I've got the old SC-88, but I was quite impressed with the DTX patches.
 
drstawl: I haven't used Cakewalk, but if Cakewalk won't play thing from the MIDI out fo the SB Live, then it won't play from any other MIDI interface either.

mcurran: Make sure that Cakewalk is set up to send MIDI clock on the SC-8850 MIDI out port that you have connected the drum-machine to. Also make sure the Boss is set up the receive external synchronization.
What MIDI channel it is set to doesn't matter, since the sync isn't done per channel.
 
drstawl: I've gone into Cakewalk's
Settings menu and it has a number of
options here for Midi.

Cakewalk doesn't appear to have an option
to set the Midi through on the SC-8850
specifically.

There doesn't appear to be an option to
set Cakewalk to send Midi Clock Thru from
the port on the SC that the drum machine
is connected to.

Cakewalk's Help menu offers this regarding
the above:

"MIDI Thru (Settings menu)
Use this command to set options controlling how MIDI input is transformed and echoed to the MIDI output. Auto mode, the default, is the most convenient. It routes things based on the Port, Channel, Key+ and Vel+ parameters of the track you currently have the cursor on in the Track/Measure view."

Midi Thru mapping is set to Auto.

Midi Sync Transmission is checked.

Midi Thru Mapping is set to Port 1.

There is one extra option for Port
Settings,under "Global Midi Options"
but what this number would be, I am
not sure, since the Drum Machine has no option I can find that sets it for receiving on a port, only a Midi Channel.

I've left this Cakewalk Global Port set
to "0". Maybe this is the culprit.

The drum machine is set up for EXT. SYNC,
Midi, Receive on Channel 10.

One interesting note is this:

"Send MIDI Start/Continue/Stop/Clock controls whether Cakewalk will transmit MIDI Sync. If you are not synchronizng another device like a drum machine to Cakewalk, leave this disabled."

It also says, regarding Syncronization to
said Midi Device, "Only available in
Cakewalk Professional."

Hmmmm. I have Cakewalk Express. Perhaps this
is really the problem, this feature has been
disabled for this version.

Looks like I'll need to call Cakewalk.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There is one extra option for Port
Settings,under "Global Midi Options"
but what this number would be, I am
not sure, since the Drum Machine has no option I can find that sets it for receiving on a port, only a Midi Channel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The port is the hole you stick the cable into. The Drum machine only has one in port. The SC has at least two out ports.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've left this Cakewalk Global Port set to "0". Maybe this is the culprit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably. This should be set to the port on the SC that the drum machine is connected to. If Cakewalk only has a number here, you must someway figure out which port has which number. I have absolutely no idea on how to do that... Also make sure all the SC's midi ports show up in the Windows control panel.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hmmmm. I have Cakewalk Express. Perhaps this is really the problem, this feature has been disabled for this version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could be, but syncing Cakewalk to an external device and syncing an external device to Cakewalk is different things.
Then again, you don't need to sync them, you could program the drums in cakewalk.
And btw doesn't the SC have Drum sounds?
 
regebro:

I appreciate your help.

A few thoughts on this. Yes,
you are right the sc has drum sounds
but I feel the DR-770 has better ones,
and I'd rather not use up the voices
on the SC with drums.

Doing heavy strings and piano, it doesn't
take long for the SC to use up all its
voices with all those notes playing
together.

Plus, it's a real bitch getting
the drums to sound right in the SC, the
velocity variances triggering from a piano
key make for a very strange sounding drum
part.

In other words, playing the drums from a piano keyboard, all the drum notes sound different, with very little way of
controlling the exact velocity.

Even looping a 4 bar beat sounds weird.
---
quote:
Then again, you don't need to sync them, you could program the drums in cakewalk.
---
Do you mean use the SC's internal drum sounds, or program my drum machine from
Cakewalk?

As far as how to program the DR-770
from the Cakewalk screen, I have no
idea how that would be done, if that
is what you meant.

I will experiment with the port settings.
If there are only two, then it's one of two, right?
 
regebro:
-------
Probably. This should be set to the port on the SC that the drum machine is connected
to. If Cakewalk only has a number here, you must someway figure out which port has
which number. I have absolutely no idea on how to do that... Also make sure all the SC's
midi ports show up in the Windows control panel.
-------
There are so many parameter settings in Cakewalk, it's insane. I've tried a bunch
of combinations, no luck.

I've also gone into Windows Control Panel,
I don't see anything about ports in there.

I am afraid I am completely lost.
 
In "Control Panel -> Multimedia -> MIDI" you will see all the MIDI ports you have on your system. The SC MIDI ports should be there. If not, talk to Roland.
 
I've checked my Control Settings,
Midi shows:

Roland Serial Midi Out A
Roland Serial Midi Out B
Roland Serial Midi Out C
Roland Serial Midi Out D
Roland Serial Midi Out E

Do i need to add the drum machine to
this list, if yes, using what para-
meters?
 
>Cakewalk won't play thing from the MIDI out >fo the SB Live, then it won't play from any >other MIDI

How's that? What if the cable is bad? What if the MIDI interface in the SB is bad? His (the example I gave) setup showed 4 different MIDI drivers installed and none of them were able to send MIDI data through the out port. His DTX was triggerable through a simple keyboard controller into the MIDI in port so I don't think it was any setting problem on the DTX.

That's why I suggested the external MIDI interface. In CW (or actually anywhere in Windows) the ports show up as:

MQ IN PORT A
MQ IN PORT B
MQ OUT PORT A
MQ OUT PORT B

No need to specify any particular device to which these ports will be connected. Just select the port where you have the devices connected.
(double-click on the port column of the track view in CW and you should see all available MIDI ports as a drop-down list)
These differences (device dependent) are handled at the MIDI message level. I can use an external sequencer or a keyboard controller or the POD into either MIDI IN port for recording or monitoring through the MIDI outs, and trigger any external synth that reads MIDI with either MIDI out port.
Or gang both MIDI outs to the SC-88 for 32 voices.
 
drstawl:

I am quite a novice at this so much
of what you have explained here is
really Greek to me.

If there is a detailed way to do this
with my existing set up, and not get
into an external Midi interface, then
more elementary details would be
helpful.

Also, what are you referring to as "SB"?

By the way, the SC-8850 sounds are indeed quite impressive. The strings are awesome.

The manual, however, is absolutely
useless.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>drstawl: How's that? What if the cable is bad?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then a new MIDI interface obviously won't help.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What if the MIDI interface in the SB is bad?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, then another MIDI device would help. But a working SB Live would help too...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In CW (or actually anywhere in Windows) the ports show up as:
MQ IN PORT A
MQ IN PORT B
MQ OUT PORT A
MQ OUT PORT B<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For SB Live? I think I have an SB Live, and it should say come up with one port for the internal synth and one "SB Live MIDI out" or something like that...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mcurran:
If there is a detailed way to do this
with my existing set up, and not get
into an external Midi interface
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You already have 5 midi interfaces. Mor of them would not be of much use. :)
As you said, in Control Panel lists five MIDI ports on the MC, they are named A,B,C,D and E. Probably the MIDI out port you have connected the drum machine too is marked with one of these letters. Make your you are sending the signals you want to go to the drum machine on that port.
 
Regebro: you misread that last part; the ports I gave as illustration were the ones you'd see with an external 2 x 2 MIDI interface, not on the SB. For the SB Live! you are correct; you get the two ports you mentioned; neither of them worked for my friend. Only the internal synth was triggered by CW MIDI playback.
As for the bad cable; since the SB
(that's Soundblaster, mcurran)
uses a game port for MIDI I/O, the cable would have to be a different one, since the external units use 5-pin DIN on both sides.
And if you ever think that Roland manuals suck, just check out the stuff that Yamaha writes.
And as for a good reason (another one) to get an external MIDI interface- you'll never get to use more than half of the power of the 8850 without 2 separate MIDI ports.
They even come in USB flavor now.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drstawl:
Regebro: you misread that last part; the ports I gave as illustration were the ones you'd see with an external 2 x 2 MIDI interface, not on the SB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, yes, of course. Midiquest, of course. :)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And as for a good reason (another one) to get an external MIDI interface- you'll never get to use more than half of the power of the 8850 without 2 separate MIDI ports. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The SC has it's own serial or USB connection to the PC, and according to the specs you are supposed to be able to use them from the PC. This is also corroborated by the fact that the SC shows up as 5 MIDI ports in Windows. So, should be able to use all of the SC from the PC without any extra MIDI ports.

[This message has been edited by regebro (edited 07-17-2000).]
 
The solution has been found.

1) set up a track on Cakewalk for the
drum machine

2) Use the "Settings" menu for that
track to send on Port 2, Midi Channel
11, and check the box in CW that says
"Send Midi Clock Info/Start/Stop"

3) Set drum machine to receive on Channel
11.

4) Hit the play button in Cakewalk

5) Like magic, the drum machine plays
whatever beat/pattern or song programmed
into it, but to the clock/tempo of the
Cakewalk Sequencer!

I'd like to thank Sam over at Edirol.Com
for the answer, and for the guys on this
board who also worked to help me.

I'd also like to let Cakewalk know their
online support sucks, and their telephone
support is just about worthless, due to
the interminably long hold times.

My email of last Friday to them was
never answered as of today.

For what Cakewalk charges for their software,
they should either hire more customer support
people, get an 800 number, or write a more
comprehensive manual.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And as for a good reason (another one) to get an external MIDI interface- you'll never get to use more than half of the power of the 8850 without 2 separate MIDI ports. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The SC has it's own serial or USB connection to the PC, and according to the specs you are supposed to be able to use them from the PC. This is also corroborated by the fact that the SC shows up as 5 MIDI ports in Windows. So, should be able to use all of the SC from the PC without any extra MIDI ports.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I feel like such a dinosaur with my non-USB enabled Canvas. There was a serial cable available for my Canvas, but it was ridiculously priced and well- the serial port is just too slow to handle two ports worth of thickly written MIDI. Parallel barely.
USB- no problemo.
And I totally missed his intent of triggering the sequences in the drum machine using the tempo from CW. I would've dumped those sequences to CW and created ONE MIDI file with all the playback information so it could be played on other similar systems, using different ports to send the MIDI information to the correct devices. Doing this also allows one to line up events in the non-drum part of the score with those in the drum parts using the staff (or other) view(s).
And to print out the drum notation.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drstawl:
I would've dumped those sequences to CW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too. On that note, does anybody know of a nice, cheap PATTERN BASED PC Sequencer? Preferrably one that can sync to MTC?

I'm so bloody locked into pattern thinking when I make music that I don't want any bloody tape-like sequencers. I've been using Roland equipment too long. :)
 
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