Home Recording's Dirty Little Secret

[Bob's Mods]

CRAP!

Is that why I can't find the "suck reducer" VST mastering plugin? I've searched high and low and cannot seem to find it.

Does anyone know of some kind of "ear training" software that might be helpful for noobs like me who aren't exactly sure of what to listen for?

I find that when trying to "master" (and I use the term very loosely) I end up screwing with EQ's and whatnot and end up with a muddy mess. Then, I remove all the effects and *viola!*, it sounds great (to me) all of the sudden.

I think that's the secret to getting "professional results" for us starving home recordists: Lowered expectations.

MW...David is right on with his reply. For someone who is new, you will need to create demo mixes and work with them for while. Do different ones, acoustic, electric, direct, mic'd, etc. You've got to learn your tecnique, your hardware and software and their sweet spots. Just pressing "record" is the easy part. You have to learn to be a quasi technician AND to train your ears at the same time. It is overwhelming at first. The only way to plow through it is make demo after demo for a number of months to get a feel what you can do with what you got. Thats what I had do....I had real junk in the beginning. I was ready to give up. I felt I had a leg up because I had a technical background. It helped me to understand the knobs and buttons better but I still had to grid it out doing demo after demo and working with them. There is no short cut.

Bob the Modster.

 

[CoolCat]

the newbs now, can have this wealth of info though,

so its a shorter time in hell if they get help early...

 

[mwthompson]

There is no short cut.

Bob the Modster.

*sigh*

I guess I knew that all along.

Are you sure there isn't a pill or something I can take?!?

I did find an "ear training" program online, but I think it's probably $50 worth of snake oil. Got the demo and it's basically lots of sound samples (starting with pink noise) with certain frequencies boosted and cut. I figure I can do that for free with my DAW if I thought I could memorize what 80hz sounds like boosted and/or cut in pink noise.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

"well lets see, this is supposed to sound like a U87" "that must be my problem, my mic sucks".

Yeah, there's a lot of misunderstanding of cause and effect; it is, in a way, kind of a form "equipment profiling". The U87 is a great mic, no question, and for that that reason it is used on a huge number of great-sounding famous professional recordings. That fact gets semi-falseley translated into "that recording sounds great because they use a U87".

That is really a form of profiling; it's no different than saying that because Almost everybody in my area that drives a Buick is a lousy driver ("Buick: The car that all America drives behind" ), that that means that Buicks make people lousy drivers.

Before you Buick drivers out there get on my case, I use that example because in my area something like 8 out of 10 Buick drivers are under 5'3", over the age of 70, and half blind with the reflexes of an opium user on vallium. The fact that they drive Buicks has little to do with their driving skills.

It's a similar (but not identical) story with the idea that because that Whitney Houston recording that used a U87 sounded so damn good, that if I just got a U87 my recordings will sound that good too. Yeah, OK, the mic did contribute some, but the real reason that recording sounded so good was a recording of because it was Whitney Houston recorded in a good room by engineers who knew what they were doing.

Put that all together in the exact same situation, except force them to use a C1 instead of a U87 and sure, it won't sound quite as good. But it'll still probably should a hell of a lot better than what most of us could do with a U87 in our shops with our average client.

I figure I can do that for free with my DAW if I thought I could memorize what 80hz sounds like boosted and/or cut in pink noise.

Exactly. Lookie here for a great way to learn the frequencies.

G.

 

[Beck]

Just time to move on. I offered, and still offer, to do so on amicable terms. It's your call as to whether you want to accept that offer.
G.

*OK that whole BS issue with Ed and Keith a few months ago is a different story altogether, that doesn't count.

Glen,

Of course... no question about it from my end. As I said, I'm not going to judge a person on a single exchange or series of exchanges in a thread gone bad. You've been around long enough for me to know of your helpful contributions to HR.com. We are just failing to understand each other and reacting as humans do to that frustration.

Sometimes more communication just makes things worse, especially in this text format, which handicaps everyone as far as body language, eye contact, inflexions, etc. I suspect we would have a right amiable discussion if sitting down at a table sipping a cup 'o joe or whatever we like to sip. I'm a Coca-Cola man myself.

~Tim

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Thank you, Tim, and I agree. No hard felings.

I'll take an iced tea (no, not long island variety )...except when it as cold as it is here right now, in which case piping hot coffee will work better. A little too early in the day for the Appleton Farms Reserve rum just yet. I'll save that for the Giants/Packers game (which will be just as cold.)

G.

 

[PsychoticTurtle]

I started recording music four years ago when I was twelve years old on a computer microphone so at that time, I definitely wasn't expecting a good sound. But when I decided to build an actual home studio two years ago, I was expecting a sound that would be similar to a studio recording. At first, I was a little disappointed when I didn't get the clean studio sound I was looking for but since then, I have been able to create a much more professional sound that I am happy with.

 

[TerraMortim]

Its a very simple process, yet has to be done by extremely skilled people with a great set of ears.

What can I do with a great set of balls? Will that help?

 

[TerraMortim]

*sigh*

I guess I knew that all along.

Are you sure there isn't a pill or something I can take?!?

I did find an "ear training" program online, but I think it's probably $50 worth of snake oil. Got the demo and it's basically lots of sound samples (starting with pink noise) with certain frequencies boosted and cut. I figure I can do that for free with my DAW if I thought I could memorize what 80hz sounds like boosted and/or cut in pink noise.

believe it or not that can help. There are certain characters to boosts and cuts in different frequency ranges and even on pink noise you can start to recognize them. But yeah, you could just make it yourself. do the results to seperate wavs... put it in shuffle mode on whatever media player you have to it's totaly random, go through it a few times while looking at it, and try doing some without looking at it (writing what you think you're hearing down) and see how close you get... you'll slowly get better over time... btw...don't do gigantic boosts or cuts, either, makes it more challenging.

 

[robin watson]

Sticky-shed is the most common stumbling block to new users of analog. Being aware of it from the start can mean the difference between success and failure for analog neophytes... so I take time out of my schedule and provide a service in the analog forum so that members may have a happy experience as they're getting started. That's all.

And I'm usually terrible at remembering names, dammit. Got me there!

 

[robin watson]

That's great, but I still wouldn't want to drive over a bridge you designed, even if you had some nice quotes about your stonemasonry.

That had a ring of sophistication about it.

 

[Bob's Mods]

Dirty Secret Revealed

So it seems that in reality a fair amount of those that jumped into the home recording craze believed they were going to sound like the commercial stuff they buy and hear on the radio. Not one single advertiser has ever stated that a prosumer computer card and a basic sequencer is or is not gonna get you there. This is a subject that rarely comes up. There is however a lot of stuff that sounds "like" something much more expensive.

There is a bar that needs to be crossed to get a commercial grade sound and its a high one. The moral of the story is...even in this day of very versatile digital rigs for the masses, it STILL takes big bucks (among other things too) to sound as good as the mixes of AC/DC, Metallica, The Beatles, Elvis, Norah Jones, Dave Mathews, etc, etc,____________ fill in the blanks with your favorite artist name.

It is my sincere hope everyone learned something from this. Please feel free to add your vote to the pole if you have not alread done so....even to those who read it long into the future.

Bob the Mod Guy.

 

[DavidK]

Not one single advertiser has ever stated that a prosumer computer card and a basic sequencer is or is not gonna get you there. This is a subject that rarely comes up.

Ya gotta pay your dues in life. You start with crap and go up the ladder. You have to actually LEARN how to use this stuff, and learning on prosumer stuff is where it's at.

I cant "outmix" my gear at this point. I am not better then it. I am getting pretty darn close though, I am starting to get results that are high quality, with Sonar and M-audio, Yamaha mixers, etc. Five years ago I couldnt do squat recordingwise. For the past two years I have been putting in 1000s of hours of doing this.

I am improving, that's all I can hope for. If I am able to get better and better recordings, it only proves that its not the gear, not at this point. I am certain that someone who really knows their stuff can come to my studio and make me look like an idiot recordingwise. There is probably a finite limit of what this prosumer gear can do, I havent hit it yet. Chances are, only a handful of people on this site have.

When I used to teach violin, I would have the student's parents come to me and say "Does he/she need a new violin"? I would always say no. Why would someone who cant play the one they have need a new one? Parents assumed it was a quick fix and their ubertalented kid would sound great on a fancy expensive one. Nope, they would sound crappy on that one too. When the parents put up a stink, I would grab the kids fiddle and play it for them. Then I would say "How does it sound" and they always said "Pretty good". I would hand it back to the kid and say " hit the practice room Junior"

 

[TerraMortim]

the limits of prosumer gear when digital is concerned are blurred at best... There's a nice sound to top dollar converters and stuff, but it's not as big of a difference as you'd think.

 

[TerraMortim]

So it seems that in reality a fair amount of those that jumped into the home recording craze believed they were going to sound like the commercial stuff they buy and hear on the radio. Not one single advertiser has ever stated that a prosumer computer card and a basic sequencer is or is not gonna get you there. This is a subject that rarely comes up. There is however a lot of stuff that sounds "like" something much more expensive.

There is a bar that needs to be crossed to get a commercial grade sound and its a high one. The moral of the story is...even in this day of very versatile digital rigs for the masses, it STILL takes big bucks (among other things too) to sound as good as the mixes of AC/DC, Metallica, The Beatles, Elvis, Norah Jones, Dave Mathews, etc, etc,____________ fill in the blanks with your favorite artist name.

It is my sincere hope everyone learned something from this. Please feel free to add your vote to the pole if you have not alread done so....even to those who read it long into the future.

Bob the Mod Guy.

Thanks bud! Was an interesting suggestion (even enjoyed the good natured screaming about analog vs. digital...haven't heard that one talked about in a long time)

 

[CoolCat]

HR and Pro..
I've heard HR stuff that sounds better than old muddy Led Zepplin tracks and other big names. I use Led Zepplin because I really like them, possibly my favorite band and music....but not so the recording when compared to todays stuff most the time.
And I'll even throw the Beatles in there, put a Early Beatles album side by side with a new top-pop CD and imo, the new stuff usually sounds have more clarity (especially the bass). Nothing to do with their music or magic, just the sound.

IMO the future of HR will continue to improve most likely, and as TM mentioned " the line gets blurry at best". The old ProStudio using a U87 and ProTools versus a HR studio using ProTools and a U87.

I agree with Bob, the continuous improvement of HR will be the outboard Hi-End gear, i the mics, pre's compressors, plug-in's. with better and better outboard gear. These can become a big piece of the puzzle.

The second being the room, which is not so easy to match the high end studio, as I see it. Although looking at old pictures of Motown the room was pretty frkn down homey and yet took over the world of music for a time.

Analog versus Digital
Reel to Reel versus Pro Tool

U87 versus <put name here>

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

When I used to teach violin, I would have the student's parents come to me and say "Does he/she need a new violin"? I would always say no. Why would someone who cant play the one they have need a new one?

That sums it all up in a nutshell.

G.

 

[Bob's Mods]

Ya gotta pay your dues in life. You start with crap and go up the ladder. You have to actually LEARN how to use this stuff, and learning on prosumer stuff is where it's at.

I cant "outmix" my gear at this point. I am not better then it. I am getting pretty darn close though, I am starting to get results that are high quality, with Sonar and M-audio, Yamaha mixers, etc. Five years ago I couldnt do squat recordingwise. For the past two years I have been putting in 1000s of hours of doing this.

I am improving, that's all I can hope for. If I am able to get better and better recordings, it only proves that its not the gear, not at this point. I am certain that someone who really knows their stuff can come to my studio and make me look like an idiot recordingwise. There is probably a finite limit of what this prosumer gear can do, I havent hit it yet. Chances are, only a handful of people on this site have.

When I used to teach violin, I would have the student's parents come to me and say "Does he/she need a new violin"? I would always say no. Why would someone who cant play the one they have need a new one? Parents assumed it was a quick fix and their ubertalented kid would sound great on a fancy expensive one. Nope, they would sound crappy on that one too. When the parents put up a stink, I would grab the kids fiddle and play it for them. Then I would say "How does it sound" and they always said "Pretty good". I would hand it back to the kid and say " hit the practice room Junior"

David,

I agree with everything you've stated. I kinda got started with this stuff in the mid 90s when there was lots a junk floating around. With some gear the quality line is getting blurred as the ante has been up'ed these days.

You should be able to do killer recordings as your only limited by the quality of your software (and some of this synth stuff is very very good these days). You never have to work out of the box.

Bob

 

[DavidK]

.

You should be able to do killer recordings as your only limited by the quality of your software (and some of this synth stuff is very very good these days). You never have to work out of the box.

Bob

My music features strings on every track. My new CD has 12 real players on it.

 

[Beck]

HR and Pro..
I've heard HR stuff that sounds better than old muddy Led Zepplin tracks and other big names. I use Led Zepplin because I really like them, possibly my favorite band and music....but not so the recording when compared to todays stuff most the time.
And I'll even throw the Beatles in there, put a Early Beatles album side by side with a new top-pop CD and imo, the new stuff usually sounds have more clarity (especially the bass). Nothing to do with their music or magic, just the sound.

IMO the future of HR will continue to improve most likely, and as TM mentioned " the line gets blurry at best". The old ProStudio using a U87 and ProTools versus a HR studio using ProTools and a U87.

I agree with Bob, the continuous improvement of HR will be the outboard Hi-End gear, i the mics, pre's compressors, plug-in's. with better and better outboard gear. These can become a big piece of the puzzle.

The second being the room, which is not so easy to match the high end studio, as I see it. Although looking at old pictures of Motown the room was pretty frkn down homey and yet took over the world of music for a time.

Analog versus Digital
Reel to Reel versus Pro Tool

U87 versus <put name here>

Brings to mind another interesting question… what does a recording have to sound like to be “Pro level?” There’s always been good and bad production. I think a lot of songs, that if they weren’t done by already established groups/artists we would have thought… WTF?

Case in point (IMO) Led zeppelin “Fool in the Rain.” I remember at the time thinking if an unknown had sent that to an A&R rep at any major label it would have wound up in the trash bin. It wasn’t very well done production wise compared to classic Zepp and the off-key vocals sounded like Plant had a wood vice on his balls or something.

Imagine the reaction of Simon on American Idol to Plant’s off-key performance. I’m a big Zeppelin fan myself, but I always hated that song. Somebody liked it though because it was always playing.

As far as HR equipment quality getting better, I see it the opposite as far a out-board gear. Nearly every company I can think of has declined, mainly due to outsourcing to Asia and other cost cutting measures. Compared to the 80’s to mid 90’s we’re at a low point. The budget stuff back in the day was higher quality, but it was more costly than the low end of Today.

A few examples:
Alesis
Behringer
Kurzweil
Lexicon
Mackie

They all used to make outstanding affordable gear. Now they all seem to have a “minimum acceptable” philosophy. That is, “What can we get away with?” The market is less sophisticated simply because it is so much larger.

There are many more levels of product, including more levels of junk than there was when I started in recording. What I mean is if you want anything from a mic to a magic plug-in, there is one out there for you no mater how little money you have.

Wading through the toys to get to serious equipment is harder today then ever before, and I don’t envy anyone with little or no background trying to sort it out. Trends aren’t necessarily based on true advances in technology. It’s been this way for quite some time though, as most music magazines are product oriented, as are most music forums.

People must be careful not to adopt a manufacturer or vender perspective of what music is all about. This can happen to you by osmosis, sooner or later. To the manufacturer you are just a consumer. Whether you actually ever get around to making good music or not is of no consequence, as long as you keep buying new products, which are of course according to the manufacturer better than last year’s.

It’s natural for us to think technology is advancing simply because time is advancing… humans are wired that way.