Hit song Forumal

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The First Don

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Here is my proposal for a hit song formula.

First let me start by creating a hypothetical situation. You record a bass line on your 4-track recorder. For 4 bars you play the bass line with a certain rhythm, and then for 4 more bars you play the bass line with a different rhythm. In doing so you play the same progression and place the chord changes in the same place through out all 8 bars. Only the rhythm changes. Next you play back the first 4 bars of the bass line as a loop until you come up with a satisfactory melody on your guitar. You decide that the melody might sound cool on the other 4 bars of the bass line as well. Notice how the way you play the melody is effected by the change in the rhythm in bars 5-8. Even though the melody is played with the exact same rhythm as it had in bars 1-4. The bass line is effecting how you feel it, and your picking style will change slightly to the feel of the bass. I will call this emotion.

I propose that emotions are irrational while formulas are rational. As such its impossible to create a forumal to satisfy emotion. To sucessfully acomplish such a task would create a paradox.
 
So where's the hit song formula, Mr. Spock?


Er, sorry, "forumal."
 
I am submitting to you that a hit song formula can not exsist.
 
Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe I'll be able to sleep at night now.

"Exist."
 
What about a calculator for picking winning lottery numbers? :confused:

:rolleyes:
 
Forumal is a great word. Kudos for inventing that. As for the rest of your post....have you no soul? Bleuch...
 
Garry Sharp said:
Forumal is a great word. Kudos for inventing that. As for the rest of your post....have you no soul? Bleuch...
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No, I have soul. If I didn't have soul I don't think I would have figured this out.
 
check this out

http://www.hitsongscience.com

This is an interesting site. It claims the software can predict if the song is going to be a hit or not. I’m sure all of the recording industry can’t wait to get their mits on it.

I don’t know the mathematical formula of it is 100% on the money on every song. But nowhere on the site does it claim to have a formula to write a hit song.

If it was that easy, everyone could write a hit song. Not even Diane Warren hits one out of the park everytime.
 
Hit song formula:

1. Take one hot-looking teenage pop star wannabe (of your choice of gender, though apparently it takes five guys to rival the pulling power of one girl so choose wisely).
2. Sign an airtight contract that doesn't give the wannabe much of anything after the initial bonus.
3. Pay the initial bonus.
4. Add in a bunch of songs with driving beats.
5. Auto-tune it to death.
6. Eliminate any chords other than I, IV, V, and VI.
7. Tighten up the timing.
8. Tighten up the clothing to match.
9. Schedule an MTV appearance in which the pop star wannabe flirts with Ashton Kutcher. (It helps if the wannabe is a girl, though this is optional.)
10. Release the single.

What? You meant a formula for a hit that doesn't suck? Oh, well, that's a different problem altogether. :D
 
The First Don said:
I propose that emotions are irrational while formulas are rational. As such its impossible to create a forumal to satisfy emotion. To sucessfully acomplish such a task would create a paradox.
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The First Don;
When writing lyrics, there are well-known formulas or rules for hit songs; read any good songwriting book to find them. The problem is that, after the music industry discovered the "formula", they consentrated on the "formula" and ignored the value of the lyrics or musical originality. That lead to a multitude of poorly worded, mind-numbing sound-alike songs in country, rock and pop (and, dare I say it - disco). The "formula" got a well-deserved bad name. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I must admit that I totally enjoyed many of those poorly worded, mind-numbing sound-alike songs from the sixties to the eighties.)

Now, unfortunately, a lot of new songwriters who could benefit from the discipline of writing to the lyrical structure of AABA or ABAB songs with a "hook" title, instead, rebel against formulas and rules for the sake of creative freedom. Although, I notice that many of those who say they ignore the "rules" actually follow more of them than they ignore.

Songwriting can be a tremendously satisfying personal experience. The most important thing is to enjoy the process. Follow the rules, ignore the rules; but you are better served by, at least, knowing the rules. Knowledge is always good.

You can still write a great song filled with the emotion you want to express using the formulas that worked so well in the past. And the song will have appeal that a less structured song will almost always lack. Just avoid lyrics like "Shake, shake, shake; Shake, shake, shake; Shake your booty; Shake your booty."

By the way, how do you figure that you are the "first" don?

Keep writing,
The Long-Winded Don
 
Emusic said:
@dgatwood
haha thats hilarious man. roflmao. great reply :D
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Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all night.

But seriously, folks....

TaoManna Don said:
Songwriting can be a tremendously satisfying personal experience. The most important thing is to enjoy the process. Follow the rules, ignore the rules; but you are better served by, at least, knowing the rules. Knowledge is always good.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear. All too often, music... really, any form of artistic expression... experiences periodic radical reformations... in which composers throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. (Insert Jay Sherman "Bathwater, I say... Bath... Water!") For example, stream of consciousness poetry.... :D

I would say that one should follow traditional structural rules unless there is a good reason not to. That said, IMHO, whether you pick an ABAB form or sonata allegro is of little consequence, so long as you have a fairly regular form.

Personally, I like songs that start with a standard form and tweak it to suit---add a bridge, add a counter-chorus, add an instrument break with variations on the theme, whatever. Stock forms are overdone, but small variations on those forms can really revitalize them.
 
There's no great secret really is there.

1. get $5 million (give or take a million)
2. Hire the best record pluggers with ways into the media
3. Hire the top PR firm to prepare some interesting sounding stories for the media
4. Set up a licensing deal with a major (tell'em about the money you're investing)
5. Buy a slot on a top tour as support
6. Buy your slots on MTV

Last and probably least, get someone to write a distictly average R'n'B dance song and find a sexy male/female dancer to sing and perform it.

Simple enough really.
 
TaoManna Don said:
The First Don;
When writing lyrics, there are well-known formulas or rules for hit songs; read any good songwriting book to find them. The problem is that, after the music industry discovered the "formula", they consentrated on the "formula" and ignored the value of the lyrics or musical originality. That lead to a multitude of poorly worded, mind-numbing sound-alike songs in country, rock and pop (and, dare I say it - disco). The "formula" got a well-deserved bad name. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I must admit that I totally enjoyed many of those poorly worded, mind-numbing sound-alike songs from the sixties to the eighties.)

Now, unfortunately, a lot of new songwriters who could benefit from the discipline of writing to the lyrical structure of AABA or ABAB songs with a "hook" title, instead, rebel against formulas and rules for the sake of creative freedom. Although, I notice that many of those who say they ignore the "rules" actually follow more of them than they ignore.

Songwriting can be a tremendously satisfying personal experience. The most important thing is to enjoy the process. Follow the rules, ignore the rules; but you are better served by, at least, knowing the rules. Knowledge is always good.

You can still write a great song filled with the emotion you want to express using the formulas that worked so well in the past. And the song will have appeal that a less structured song will almost always lack. Just avoid lyrics like "Shake, shake, shake; Shake, shake, shake; Shake your booty; Shake your booty."

By the way, how do you figure that you are the "first" don?

Keep writing,
The Long-Winded Don
Click to expand...

I didn't say that the formulas dont exsist. I'm saying that they are wrong. Let me attempt to clarify my position.

Formula = math = rational
Music = emotion = irrational

rational DOES NOT = irrational

therefor:

Formula DOES NOT = Music
 
The story of Kenna is germane here, I think. I had never heard of him but it's in Malcolm Gladwell's new book, Blink (Gladwell wrote the brilliant "Tipping Point"; Blink is far inferior, but anyway...) US guy of Ethiopian parents, music somewhere between new wave and hip hop. Hard to classify.

Kenna's demo CD found its way to Atlantic Records, whose co-president Craig Kallman thought it was brilliant. So did Fred Durst, so did Paul McGuiness (U2's manager). McGuiness said that Kenna was going to change the world. He filled LA's Roxy to capacity with industry insiders on a few hours' notice.

So why did he never get a commercial release? The focus goups (random public) didn't like his music.

Makes you think that when the likes of Aaron bang on here about how you need to structure a song if you want to be commercial, they have a point.

One for the sad but true box IMO.
 
Could you repeat that..I was in my 'LAB' mixing up a new 'forumla'... :p
 
Well the post was about a 'Hit Song', the purpose of my post (the one about spending millions on PR etc) is about what determins a 'hit', and by hit I assume we mean selling lots of units and making money. Now i differentiate between what is a 'hit' song and what is a 'good' song, in my mind they are not necessarily the same thing.

What determins if a song is a 'hit' is all about access to the media, which is mostly sewn up by big biz, after all you won't have much of a hit if you can't get played on the radio.

Is there a formula for a 'hit', see my previous post (it's about promotion). But if you ask is there a formula for a good song, no, what's a good song is in the ears of the listener.
 
dgatwood said:
Hit song formula:

1. Take one hot-looking teenage pop star wannabe (of your choice of gender, though apparently it takes five guys to rival the pulling power of one girl so choose wisely).
:D
Click to expand...


he he -- you said "pulling power" :P
 
seriously ? yeah, promotion helps, but a good song helps more. Wasn't RIAA bitching last year about how less cds were being sold - but this year more CDs were sold because apparently there is better product out there this year.

I have a freind who is young but quite talented and bright. He wanted to do a project like so, got the people he thought would be right, etc - and it never got off the ground. But he hooked up with my roomate just to jam and they made something special. He told me his insight/discovery is "you cant
*make* magic happen. If you are lucky, and open, you will recognize magic when it comes to you."

that is the problem with the entertainment business. They want to make magic happen. Seinfeld was magic not because it was a formula sitcom, but because the right people got together and wanted to do what was in their hearts, and they had been working a long time to channel that. Same with quentin tarentino and pulp fiction (whom I think is now trying to copy his own 'formulas' and make magic happen) or those 4 guys in the 60s - the english guys... sorry 5 guys...

I think the over 'formularization' today is a big reason why there are no more radio "hits". the last radio hit I can think of is "hey ya" which was totally out of the formula of today's radio.
 
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