High-end Martin Acoustics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tadpui
  • Start date Start date
While there were some great guitars made in the last century, I'll agree that never before has such quality instruments been available at affordable prices. But vintage guitars do have a mojo about them; and some guitars do and will get better with age. Woods and other materials age and the tone grows. To my ears an older guitar that has been played alot does have that broken in, "correct" sound...if you follow me.

It's like the wood "learns" the way it's going to vibrate and becomes drier and more musical with time. This is especially true on Martins. I think the new one's are just awesome but if you A-B a new D-28 with even one that's 20 years older I think you'd see the difference; even if it was very small.

Cowtown Guitars here in Vegas had a '62 Martin D-28 that had fairly new strings on it and man...it damn near made me weep. Such a lush, balanced, airy tone that had piano like bass when flatpicked and a deep round bass when fingerpicked. They had a 2005 HD-28 as well and while it was a fantastic instrument too it lacked the tone of the older 28. Not by much, but it was palpable. That '05 will sound better in 2050, no doubt. That's what owning a guitar like that promises; a growth in tone and feel that only comes with time.

So whether you get old or new, IMO when you get a quality guitar you win either way.
 
Victory Pete said:
Have you tried them?
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At that price, of course not. :p

That said, you are familiar with the fossilization process, right? Biological matter is slowly replaced with stone over eons. Making pins out of "fossilized" anything is a fancy way of saying you're making them out of some sort of stone - limestone or whatever.

Now, if they're using the term "fossilized" incorrectly and it's actually still ivory of some sort, hey, suit yourself, but if it's really and truly fossilized, then you're paying a huge premium for a chunk of limestone.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
At that price, of course not. :p

That said, you are familiar with the fossilization process, right? Biological matter is slowly replaced with stone over eons. Making pins out of "fossilized" anything is a fancy way of saying you're making them out of some sort of stone - limestone or whatever.

Now, if they're using the term "fossilized" incorrectly and it's actually still ivory of some sort, hey, suit yourself, but if it's really and truly fossilized, then you're paying a huge premium for a chunk of limestone.
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I think they might be more than just "a chunk of limestone"
http://www.maurysmusic.com/fossilized_walrus_ivory__fwi__bridge_pins___todd_s_review
VP
 
Victory Pete said:
I think they might be more than just "a chunk of limestone"
http://www.maurysmusic.com/fossilized_walrus_ivory__fwi__bridge_pins___todd_s_review
VP
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Ahh, so they're not fossilized?

EDIT - the reviewer even says they "look rather like marble." :p

Honestly, man, I can't prove this, but my STRONG hunch is you'd be just as well off going to a good machinist's shop and giving him $50 to make you a couple stone end pins. If they really ARE fossilized, then that's essentially what you're getting.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Ahh, so they're not fossilized?

EDIT - the reviewer even says they "look rather like marble." :p

Honestly, man, I can't prove this, but my STRONG hunch is you'd be just as well off going to a good machinist's shop and giving him $50 to make you a couple stone end pins. If they really ARE fossilized, then that's essentially what you're getting.
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He also makes a good many spurious and unsupported claims regarding musical acoustics and the use of FWI. His claims sound good but they are simply snake oil. I especially like this bit.
The walrus ivory is at least 25% more dense than elephant ivory, and that is what makes it better at transferring vibrations from the strings to the top of a guitar. You can prove this by weighing a set of FWI pins and elephant or mammoth ivory pins. The FWI are going to be about 25% heavier. It is significant enough that you can tell by holding them in your hand.
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If density was the significant property in materials that allows them to transmit or transfer sound why not make the whole bridge out of stone, no wait why not the whole guitar. No wait stone is crap at transferring sound wave energy despite being dense. Silly me.:rolleyes:

I have fitted them for people before and they work just fine. They are in no way superior to bone.

By far the most important consideration when fitting bridge pins is just that, the correct fit and having the string anchored correctly and holding well against the bridge plate.
 
muttley600 said:
I have fitted them for people before and they work just fine. They are in no way superior to bone.

By far the most important consideration when fitting bridge pins is just that, the correct fit and having the string anchored correctly and holding well against the bridge plate.
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So if I ever got a wild hair up my ass and decided to buy some accessories for my Martin, bridge pins would be pretty far down the list? I really like the look of the stock ones on my D-41 since they have the abalone inlay that matches the abalone motif on the rest of the instrument.

Honestly, if I ever replace anything on this instrument, it would be the tuners/tuning pegs. I'm not a big gold fan. I'm partial to nickel, silver, platinum, anything silver-colored over anything gold-colored. That's not to detract from the Martin tuners on this guitar (at least the gear covers say Martin...I kind of doubt that Martin actually manuactured them). They have a great gear ratio, they turn as smoothly as a German sports car, and I can make micro-adjustments to the strings with little effort at all.
 
Tadpui said:
So if I ever got a wild hair up my ass and decided to buy some accessories for my Martin, bridge pins would be pretty far down the list? I really like the look of the stock ones on my D-41 since they have the abalone inlay that matches the abalone motif on the rest of the instrument.

Honestly, if I ever replace anything on this instrument, it would be the tuners/tuning pegs. I'm not a big gold fan. I'm partial to nickel, silver, platinum, anything silver-colored over anything gold-colored. That's not to detract from the Martin tuners on this guitar (at least the gear covers say Martin...I kind of doubt that Martin actually manuactured them). They have a great gear ratio, they turn as smoothly as a German sports car, and I can make micro-adjustments to the strings with little effort at all.
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In all honesty if you like the way they look and they fit well leave them be. You won't notice a Heap of difference if any. In order of improvement I'd say it goes saddle, bridge pins, nut with the sadlle being waayy out in front.

As with most things in manufacture it's a combination of materials AND workmanship/craftsmanship that makes the difference. I always use bone unless asked to use something else but thats because I don't make 1000's of guitars a month and I like to empahsise the detail on what I build.
 
Tadpui said:
So if I ever got a wild hair up my ass and decided to buy some accessories for my Martin, bridge pins would be pretty far down the list? I really like the look of the stock ones on my D-41 since they have the abalone inlay that matches the abalone motif on the rest of the instrument.

Honestly, if I ever replace anything on this instrument, it would be the tuners/tuning pegs. I'm not a big gold fan. I'm partial to nickel, silver, platinum, anything silver-colored over anything gold-colored. That's not to detract from the Martin tuners on this guitar (at least the gear covers say Martin...I kind of doubt that Martin actually manuactured them). They have a great gear ratio, they turn as smoothly as a German sports car, and I can make micro-adjustments to the strings with little effort at all.
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The tuners on my Martins are Schallers. made in Germany!
VP:) PS Your guitar already has a Bone nut and saddle.
 
Victory Pete said:
Do you know what kind of ivory that was? I am interested in the fossilized walrus ivory they get in Alaska. The price is ridiculous though, $125 for 6 pins!
VP
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I'm pretty sure most of their stock was African elephant ivory.

That's why it was confiscated.

If you look around you can find stuff like carvings, mirror and comb sets, cue balls, etc made from ivory.

At guitar shows I've seen guys selling tortoise-shell stuff too.

Ivory picks for $50 each, tortoise for $40.

The ivory picks are supposed to stick to your thumb and finger better than anything else.

A lot of luthiers keep a small stock. And a lot won't touch the stuff.
 
c7sus said:
I'm pretty sure most of their stock was African elephant ivory.

That's why it was confiscated.

If you look around you can find stuff like carvings, mirror and comb sets, cue balls, etc made from ivory.

At guitar shows I've seen guys selling tortoise-shell stuff too.

Ivory picks for $50 each, tortoise for $40.

The ivory picks are supposed to stick to your thumb and finger better than anything else.

A lot of luthiers keep a small stock. And a lot won't touch the stuff.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt want any ivory from an elephant, even if it was recycled.
VP
 
c7sus said:
I'm pretty sure most of their stock was African elephant ivory.

That's why it was confiscated.

If you look around you can find stuff like carvings, mirror and comb sets, cue balls, etc made from ivory.

At guitar shows I've seen guys selling tortoise-shell stuff too.

Ivory picks for $50 each, tortoise for $40.

The ivory picks are supposed to stick to your thumb and finger better than anything else.

A lot of luthiers keep a small stock. And a lot won't touch the stuff.
Click to expand...

Its still a real problem working with any of the CITES listed materials regardless. The stuff has be 100 years old from memory and you have to be able to prove it before you can rework it. It is also illegal to change use so you can't strip old antiques and make them into guitar stuff and sell it. The penalties are severe. BIG fines and seven years clink. I have a list of which Ivories and and shells are on the CITES list some where, but these days I stay pretty safe. If you do buy anything that is listed make sure you get ALL the correct paper work sorted. Ignorance is no defence if you get caught.

Having said that if you want a review on Ivory and tort picks ask ZB..;)
 
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