Hi all and a pair of questions.....

[DanP]

First of all hello, and sorry for bad English.

My question are different, but i try.......

1 - it's better to use Stereo Expander during the mix, or during the Mastering ? I mean: Waves S1, is good to give to final mix more space, or i have to use only on separate tracks where it need? What's the best software plugs wich works like Waves S1 (i mean something like the stereo Exp in the TC Finalizer....). I know Izotope Ionizer, S1, and the T-racks Stereo Enhencer....

2 - Someone could say to me if in the book 'The visul art of mixing' there is something about Electro music production (like Trance, Techno, Dance, House etc.......) ?

.....Thanks in advance....and more question coming.......

Dan

 

[TexRoadkill]

I've never fealt the need to use a stereo expander but if I did it would be on a single track. I could see using it on a string pad or something. Usually stereo expanders sound cool on headphones but they really weaken the sound. I would never use one on a whole mix unless it was some weird ambient stuff.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Hey Tex - Have you ever tried the S1? To my ears it does open up the mix quite nicely (and I'm speaking through monitors, not headphones).

 

[littledog]

ancient saying: if you like it, use it. if you're afraid everyone will laugh at you, just don't tell them.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Too late. I already posted for all the world to see.

(Besides, I've gotten used to the laughter. It's those voices that I still have a problem with.)

 

[TexRoadkill]

Hey Tex - Have you ever tried the S1? To my ears it does open up the mix quite nicely (and I'm speaking through monitors, not headphones).

Actually I haven't. My whole recording philosophy is to get it right during tracking and not mess with it too much. To my thinking there isn't much an expander can do that I can't do with panning and delay. I like to know what I'm doing to the tracks. It's also against my principals to use any type of effect on the whole mix.

Expanders usually fall into the same category as exciters, sonic maximizers, etc. They are fun to play with but usually they hurt more than they help.

But, since I haven't used the S1 I could be completely wrong

 

[dachay2tnr]

Wish I had a witty comeback, but all of your points are quite valid.

However, next time you run across the S1 try it on a mix. I'd like to get your take on it. I have no idea exactly what it does, except it seems to have a nice effect on finished mixes. Sort of like someone grabbed both ends of the mix and stretched it a little wider, giving everything just a tad more space around it.

 

[littledog]

Like Tex, I haven't tried what you are talking about. Usually stereo expanders definitely widen the soundscape, often giving a very cool effect - but the thing you have to watch out for is sometimes it attenuates some of the dead center information - you don't necessarily want your kick, bass, and lead vocal lowered in the mix. I'm not saying the S1 definitely does this, because I don't know. But if you use the stereo enhance feature on the Finalizer, for example, you do lose a little of your center punch.

Have you noticed anything like that with the S1?

 

[DanP]

Thanks for the answers; the problem of the weak center is real, but S1 could give you more than a normal Stereo expander. The TC finalizer give you the possibility to Eq the M and the S ..... i can add 80hz only in the M position (the center) without effecting the S position (Stereo). the S1 do something similar.......

About the point 2 nobody read that book ?

A new question: I know that probabily is vey stupid, but it doesn't matter. When i have a track with lead voice, or lead instruments, I use compression, and than i add reverb, delay etc to the compressed track;....but if I add copression after reverb and delay ? It's a bad thing ?

Thanks in advance

Dan

 

[SLuiCe]

I've toyed around with one in Wavelab. I like it for about a day, then I usually end up dropping it (from full mixes). But I wonder how effective they'd be on say a submix, or track group...

 

[SLuiCe]

A new question: I know that probabily is vey stupid, but it doesn't matter. When i have a track with lead voice, or lead instruments, I use compression, and than i add reverb, delay etc to the compressed track;....but if I add copression after reverb and delay ? It's a bad thing ?

Thanks in advance

Dan

You may at least have to pay more attention to your settings...for example, your notice a bit of pumping on your verb...release settings comes into play a lot with this problem, but I haven't used compression post-tracking very much to give better detail...

 

[volltreffer]

If you compress hard after having the verbs/delays on the track, you'll get kind of a 'ducking' verb/delay... When the main track is there, the verbs get comp'd down and released when the main track is silent. If you use a rather fast release, this can be a very nice effect for giving some ambience and verb tails, but only if there is room... It is rather hard to set the settings correctly, if you don't have the possibility to have them bth 'live' in the signal path... The settings of verb and comp interfere both with the result, which makes it hard to work with...

aXel