Here's Why You Should NEVER Mix With Headphones...

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Buck62

Buck62

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I've seen plenty of threads around here that ask questions about using headphones for mixing.
Now, most of us know that this is a bad idea. And since I was bored one night, I wanted to try mixing a vocal with headphones, just to see how it turned out.
I sang an old Doors song using my Rode NTK and MindPrint Envoice, then proceeded to mix it down.
(I used a karaoke disc for the music, since this is just about mixing a vocal track)
I mixed and re-mixed for about 90 minutes.
I finally got to the point where the mix sounded stellar in my Sony MDR7506's... and believe me, I know these headphones very well.
The reverb seemed perfect with the mix, as did the volume level, and the vocal seemed nice and smooth after some minor eq adjustments.

Here's the final result....
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/5/1180/singles.shtml
(...listen to "Break On Through")

As you can hear, what sounded phenomenal in the cans sounds pretty crappy on the monitors and barely tolerable on everything else.
It's got too much 'verb and it's somewhat tinny.

Anyway, I knew a headphone mix would suck, I just wondered how badly. I just thought I'd share this little experiment.

I hope I didn't blast anyone's ears out with all that screaming... heh heh ;)

Buck
 
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Good job Buck!

That's a very good example - and that was just with a vocal track! Imagine how all-over-the-map levels and tone would be mixing 8,16,or 24 tracks via cans!!!

If I have time one day, I'll post a full mix done via headphones compared to the same mix done with monitors....

Bruce
 
Thanx, Bruce :)

If I get a chance in the next couple of days, I'll do a monitor-mix of the same vocal. It'll be much better, I'm sure.

I think your idea of doing an entire mix of "everything" with the cans is great. It'll really drive this point home once everybody listens and compares the differences.

Can't wait to hear it!

Buck
 
Sure- if I had a portable multitracker I'd just get good levels on each track and mix it all later.

But I'm recording direct to CDR, so I have to get the mix right in cans. I can't afford to hire roadies to carry my Events and an amp on top of all the other stuff. This ain't Echostar Studios!
Even if I brought my monitoring system- without a quiet place to set it up, what good would it do?

Your example was frightening! I listened thru the Events and then thru those same MDR-7506s and holy shit, the mix sounded as dead as roadkill on the monitors and warm and thumpy in the cans.
 
That's what I'm talkin' about, doc... your description nailed it perfectly.

The cans seem to make everything sound better than it really is.
I'm not saying that you can't "learn" your headphones and do a decent mix... but, it would be very time consuming and difficult.

Obviously, having a good set of monitors to mix on is the ideal situation.

Buck

(BTW... Nobody commented on my singing!) :D
 
it sounded really wack. Did you do anything with the backing track. It sounded lacking in lows.

The vox seemed covered.

Its very unfortunate though that it still sounded better than some stuff I've been hearing lately.
 
Buck, better get Koss!!

A little off the subject, Buck YOU NEED A SET OF KOSS PHONES.

Try a set of KOSS PORTA PROS, YOU WILL THROW OUT THOSE sonys, I know, I have both.

Don't mix to cans, they have a completely different soundscape than speakers.

Phones will lull you into a false scense of audio nirvana, just ask Kirt!

GT
 
Very enlightning, and an execellent example of the reason mixes are done on monitors. Nice cover btw.
 
Thanks for scaring the shit out of me.

I just got back from the gig where I had to mix in cans and had only the 7506s. They did me FINE. Sure- I had to apply some internal cranial compensation, but it immediately translated on a ghetto blaster 'cause I was mixing to CDR. I'll try to get an mp3 clip up soon.
 
Anything that involves depth, or width like reverb and pans are obviously going to be totally different in the headphone environment. These things most of all will be way out. I only ever use them to check mono tracked sounds and of course for listening to music (thats been mixed).
 
Did you a/b in both mono and stereo?

Biggest problem with the phones is you get too much of the stereo separation. In normal listening environments, everything starts to sound much more "mono," resulting in phase issues you may not have caught with the ear muffs.

Some things I just can't imagine NOT being monitored primarily with headphones (see: Close to the Edge (Yes), Welcome to the Machine (Pink Floyd), Paranoid Android (Radio Head), etc. etc.
 
To Buck92...

The result was too much reverb? My experience say you use too little reverb when mixing with headphones... since you hear more detail.

One thing I think headphones are best for is to listen for, and fix noise. If they cans are good ones...
 
chessrock said:
Did you a/b in both mono and stereo?

Biggest problem with the phones is you get too much of the stereo separation. In normal listening environments, everything starts to sound much more "mono," resulting in phase issues you may not have caught with the ear muffs.

Some things I just can't imagine NOT being monitored primarily with headphones (see: Close to the Edge (Yes), Welcome to the Machine (Pink Floyd), Paranoid Android (Radio Head), etc. etc.
Click to expand...

pretty much ALL of ok computer..... man, listen to that on headphones... damn..... I remember when I first got that cd, I listened to it on our stereo downstairs... OLD-ASS system with one of the first models of cd players.... one speaker dead... thought it was a great album...... then we bought a new stereo, and I was like "HOLY SHIT!!!!! THERE'S WAY MORE OTHER STUFF!!!!" :)

kid a and amnesiac are pretty cool through headphones too... oh, and pink floyd. all I can say is, "yeah".
 
Headphones are excellent for checking for noise. I will usually mix the whole track on monitors, do a few playbacks on various other monitors, and then check it on headphones (usually somethinglike DT100's or Sennheisers) just to check panning.
 
kid a and amnesiac are pretty cool through headphones too... oh, and pink floyd. all I can say is, "yeah".
--------------------------

Tell me I'm crazy, but I just don't think it would be possible to mix that sort of thing without the cans. Or lots of mind-altering substances. ;)
 
Very interesting. As I have posted elsewhere, I sometimes use headphones to check for panning and effects, because I can hear reverb (for example) MORE clearly through phones than through my monitors. So after hearing it on headphones I usually back it off.
 
It's funny how headphone mixes do the opposite of what you would think. Headphone mixes usually have more effects and wider seperation.

That is probably because monitors give you some reverb from the room you are listening in and wide panning sounds more unatural on speakers. With cans you can still hear that 10% of the sound that is in the other ear but on speakers you tend to lose it.
 
on my 7506 headphones...the bass sounded ok...and nice and pumpy. Not so on my JBL4311's and Auratones. However, on the speakers the voice sounded "metallic" and kinda tinny sounding...and not so much on the headphones, but that quality was still there. Your version would "kill em" in a bar however....fun song:D
 
mixmkr...

You're dead-on with your assessment of the sound.
It probably has to do with the fact that you listened to the mix with the Sony MDR7506's.... the same cans I mixed the vocal with.

...and thanx for the compliments on the vocals. ;)

Buck
 
I'm sure radiohead use the headphones to check how things are sounding occasionally, but with recording budgets like theirs, I don't think they would want to even THINK about mixing the whole album in headphones... or even any part of it, for that matter..... those guys do not fuck around in the studio.
 
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