Help with vocals...

S

SilverSurfer

New member
I have 4 main vocals.
Of those, each is tracked 4 times for a total of 16 tracks of voices.

As a nOOb to mixing, I am so lost here. I have an older version of cakewalk which to me is easier to use to edit the wav files. I also have Adobe Audtion 1.5, which while it has all the neat bells and whistles, is confusing as heck.

Anyway, the issues I am having:
a. How do I spread the vocals on each main track?? Like, the main is -3, the second -9 and the other two -12, panned l and r?
b. Once each main vocal track is mixed, how I do I mix them so that the volume on each track COMBINED doesn't go past -3?

I'm sitting here trying to manually adjust the volumes so that I don't get this super surge over volume when the vocals combine. The lead vocal is the main track obviously with the second main vocal combining for some harmony. Only for about 45 seconds are all four main parts going and during that time they criss cross and sometimes don't have parts at all, making it VERY hard to get everything even.

Is there some easier way to get the volumes smooth and even without having to manually back them all off?

If I was to use a hard limiter, which I have done to get them all to -3, then when 2 vocals are going it will jump to 0 and when the other 2 comes in it will go above 0.

Sorry, I'm a nOOb so any good advice on how to mix/edit vocals would be appreciated.
 
Yikes, looks like you have your hands full. I am not really sure how to tackle that one. Perhaps since there are four main vocals, you should group them into 4's and send the groups to their own buss and work on them one at a time until the levels match, then 2 groups together, then all 4...
That's a lot of vocals...
 
Rokket said:
Yikes, looks like you have your hands full. I am not really sure how to tackle that one. Perhaps since there are four main vocals, you should group them into 4's and send the groups to their own buss and work on them one at a time until the levels match, then 2 groups together, then all 4...
That's a lot of vocals...
Click to expand...

Thanks.

What I've done is set the four vocals where I like them so that the main track of each sounds like I want it.

Looks like, from searching and looking around, that I will have to MANUALLY set volume envelopes on EVERYTHING to get it to sound right. This is not something I can just set with electronic compression because once the instruments are added, there's another dimension of dynamics I have to worry about :(
 
To me that sounds like either overkill or an interesting idea. I'd have to actually hear it to make up my mind. Exactly what style of music is this that you'd need 4 quadruple-tracked vocals anyway? I'm intrigued and repulsed at the same time, LOL!
 
SilverSurfer said:
Thanks.

What I've done is set the four vocals where I like them so that the main track of each sounds like I want it.

Looks like, from searching and looking around, that I will have to MANUALLY set volume envelopes on EVERYTHING to get it to sound right. This is not something I can just set with electronic compression because once the instruments are added, there's another dimension of dynamics I have to worry about :(
Click to expand...
Could have bitten off more than you could chew, huh? Hey, like MadAudio asked, what type of song is this that needs that much vocal? I'm curious myself...
 
MadAudio said:
To me that sounds like either overkill or an interesting idea. I'd have to actually hear it to make up my mind. Exactly what style of music is this that you'd need 4 quadruple-tracked vocals anyway? I'm intrigued and repulsed at the same time, LOL!
Click to expand...

Just covering Alice In Chain's "Down in a Hole" for my own amusement and LEARNING. I like harmonies and want to learn how to use them as I write music. Staind uses them a lot and I guess growing up on Def Leppard really hammered them into my brain as my "style."

There are 4 main vocals to Down.
I tracked each main 4 times.
However, the way I have groups made, it's just sounding a bit like Ozzy's work (thick vocals) in harmony. Not too bad so far.

I am just trying to control the volume BLASTING when all four vocals come in.
 
SilverSurfer said:
Just covering Alice In Chain's "Down in a Hole" for my own amusement and LEARNING. I like harmonies and want to learn how to use them as I write music. Staind uses them a lot and I guess growing up on Def Leppard really hammered them into my brain as my "style."

There are 4 main vocals to Down.
I tracked each main 4 times.
However, the way I have groups made, it's just sounding a bit like Ozzy's work (thick vocals) in harmony. Not too bad so far.

I am just trying to control the volume BLASTING when all four vocals come in.
Click to expand...
Can you set automation on the faders in the software? I don't know, I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass right now. I'm still thinking that mixing them to a buss and getting them level in groups could help.

I do a lot of that (got called on it too!) Def Leppard wall of sound vocals too, and it can be done with far less than that. I've done it with 6 voices, 3 per side...
 
If all the vocal tracks are the same level, then yes you will need to bring them all down in the mix to balance it out. Volume envelopes, as already suggested, should do the trick. What software are you using?
 
Have you tried adding a small amount of delay to the layered tracks? I mean real small..10-20ms? No dry, all wet. That may keep the levels down. You might just have to bring all levels way down, then mix the 4 tracks of each main as one, then try to even the tracks out.

Just a suggestion, good luck, and let us hear some of this when it's done.
 
Dogman said:
Have you tried adding a small amount of delay to the layered tracks? I mean real small..10-20ms? No dry, all wet. That may keep the levels down. You might just have to bring all levels way down, then mix the 4 tracks of each main as one, then try to even the tracks out.

Just a suggestion, good luck, and let us hear some of this when it's done.
Click to expand...


That's pretty much how I am doing it.

As far as delay goes, should I use audition for that or cake walk? I can't seem to figure out HOW to use delay without it screwing the sound up royally.
 
just play around for a little get familiar with the program cause it can be pretty duanting not knowing what your doing
sorry i wont tell you how to mix.
do i tell davinchi*(bad spelling) how to paint?
 
tubesrawsom said:
just play around for a little get familiar with the program cause it can be pretty duanting not knowing what your doing
sorry i wont tell you how to mix.
do i tell davinchi*(bad spelling) how to paint?
Click to expand...

No, but it'd be nice to know what brushes do what and how to mix the paint :D
 
I use Audition, and what I have done, is to use the delay, really short, and make sure it is 100% wet on the delayed channel. Then put one channel, maybe 10% left, the other 10% right. You'll have to play around with it, and just read some of what other people have done. That's where I started. I don't think there is a problem using either one of the programs you have. They should both do the same basic things for that.
Ed
 
Here's a rough draft. Let me know what you think and what I should work on as far as this mix goes. You'll really get an idea of the vocals and how hard they are to get correct.

 
Listening to it right now. Sounds pretty good to me. This is a hard song to do in the first place, so I think in reality, you will just have to mess with it a bunch. When I've done it, I didn't layer the vocals like you, so it was REALLY thin. Yours sounds pretty good to me. Very authentic for a rough draft. I think you have a very good starting point
 
Dogman said:
Listening to it right now. Sounds pretty good to me. This is a hard song to do in the first place, so I think in reality, you will just have to mess with it a bunch. When I've done it, I didn't layer the vocals like you, so it was REALLY thin. Yours sounds pretty good to me. Very authentic for a rough draft. I think you have a very good starting point
Click to expand...

Thanks. My ear is probably not as tuned as yours for recording so any advice as far as the mix goes, let me know. I know I need to fix vocal 1 and 2 so that they end in time (singers fault, not the equipment).

There's a few other errors, mostly volume jumping, etc, that will just take time to iron out.

Appreciate the advice.
 
I don't know what VST plugins you have, but there are some good ones out there that work well with Audition. I've found some that help when it comes to mixing and mastering. I don't record anything of the quality that needs to be done, or can even be helped by anyone else, so I just do it on my pc, and have been able to make the volume levels pretty even just by reading what I've found on this site. If you have something that is way too cool, and want it done right, get it to a pro. There are some people here that know their sh*t. They could make it right for you. If you want to do something yourself, and have the time to spend on it, play around with all the stuff you already have. That is a great learning experience.

Here is a link to something I worked on for a few hours today, and did it all myself. I just got a new mic and preamp, so had to try it. I can't sing a lick, but did anyway.
. Hope the link works. Just so you can hear something that sums up what I've learned from this board in a few short months.

Way better than stuff I've recorded before reading, and learning from the people on this board. You can do better just by putting more time into it than I did. This is just waiting for a friend to help with some of the guitar stuff. He will record a track that is on better time, and do some solo's for me. But it shows some of the stuff your program is capable of. :D
 
I thought it was sounding great! Holy shit, it sounded just like AIC! You have Lane down pat. Just play with it some more, like Dogman said. You're getting there.
 
Thanks for the advice all. I'll fiddle with it some more to see if I can get it closer to the record. Funny as I record everything in my dining room. Not the best place to do it but the only place in my complex I can sing loud and not get banging on the walls :)
 
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