Help with RNP/RNC Combo Settings

[jsegovia]

I'm a proud, new owner of an FMR RNP/RNC combo. I'm trying to get male vocals similar to the sound the Beatles get on 'Revolver' and the 'White Album,' very up-front, very open and full throated. I'm using a Rode NTK into a yamaha AW4416 DAW.

Any recommendations on settings with the RNP or RNC to get closer to this sound? I realize the RNP just has gain settings but are there any tricks I'm missing to get a bit more drive out of it, without any distortion?

And can anyone recommend some RNC settings to produce a very compressed sound with lots of presence? I'm experimenting with both normal and Supernice mode and I just hasn't found it yet. I'd like to be able to scream without clipping, and have the quieter, subtler parts come up louder in the mix.

 

[mixsit]

Just a shot from the hip as it were.. How about a fairly fast set-up. Medium ratio, say 4-6/1, and a quick release, .2-.5, and a bit fast on the attack, in the 6-40ms range. The attack time will have about as much effect on the amount of gain reduction as the threshold. As you work toward the slower end, it will grab later leaving in some edges. The fast release gets it back up in your face quickly. SuperNice takes what ever you set and slows it down a knotch. But I think you might also loose a bit of edge there.
And of cource Play with it. Every song is different.

Wayne

 

[TexRoadkill]

To be honest it's hard to get that super in your face compression with an RNC. It's just not fast enough. For that type of work you really need a Distressor or something of that caliber. I've been going through the same thing on a project and the RNC just isn't cutting it.

The best results have been in Supernice mode with the attack set as fast as possible. Put the release relatively fast at around 10'oclock. Set the ratio to 10 or higher.

The vocals I'm working with are fast rock vocals so if you are doing something slower you might have better luck. I had to record a pass with heavy peak reduction and then run that compressed track back through the RNC again during the mixdown and it's still not where I want it.

The RNC is great for smoothing out a track and subtle fattening but it's not really an in your face type of compressor.

 

[jsegovia]

So what's a good 'in-your-face' compressor?

I've been thinking a bit about the Joe Meek VC6Q British Channel. Would that be a good candidate for a more agressive compressed sound?

Anything else in that general price range (or better)?

 

[Fletcher]

I'm trying to get male vocals similar to the sound the Beatles get on 'Revolver' and the 'White Album,' very up-front, very open and full throated.

Oy.

First you need a mic that can provide the clarity and depth of tone... then you need a pre with a serious depth and sense of dimension... then a compressor that provides a bit of phase shift that slows down the high end, passing the bottom/lower midrange before the upper mids/top of the signal... print that to something like a Studer J-37... and finally some other hardware of similar caliber so the vocals have a chance of sitting in an arrangement that will permit the vocal tone you describe to come close to allowin you to get somewhere near the ball park.

Rather than trying to recreate the past may I humbly suggest that you work on mic selection and placement to try to obtain the vocal tone that best fits with the rest of your music.

As for the RNC not being "fast enough"... it is... for the tone he was talking about the limiters employed at that time were actually rather slow in comparison to the fastest setting on the RNC... there are many many more factors in play here than just speed of the time constants of the compression device... many more factors...

 

[jsegovia]

Re: Re: Help with RNP/RNC Combo Settings

Thanks very much for all the replies. As I said before, I have a Rode NTK and I'm tracking into a Yamaha AW4416. I'm very happy with both, and as I also said I'm very happy with the RNP/RNC duo as well. Perhaps the sound I'm hearing in my head is a very colored, very squeezed sound and I might need different equipment for that?

 

[tdukex]

Re: Re: Re: Help with RNP/RNC Combo Settings

Thanks very much for all the replies. As I said before, I have a Rode NTK and I'm tracking into a Yamaha AW4416. I'm very happy with both, and as I also said I'm very happy with the RNP/RNC duo as well. Perhaps the sound I'm hearing in my head is a very colored, very squeezed sound and I might need different equipment for that?

Optical compressor?

 

[mixsit]

Re: Re: Help with RNP/RNC Combo Settings

... then a compressor that provides a bit of phase shift that slows down the high end, passing the bottom/lower midrange before the upper mids/top of the signal...

Could you get into that a bit more if you have the chance? Sounds very interesting.
Thanks
Wayne

 

[Fletcher]

That kind of phase shift is the product of a transformer... the quality of the transformer will dictate the amount of phase shift present... either way, this is one of the major reasons why we westerners find the sound of transformers musically pleasing... we often call the result of this kind of thing "big" or "warm" [though there are other distortions that will add to the events that lead directly to those marketing adjectives].

There are also elements of phase shift that occur when the signal rolls off too high on the bottom... these produce an artifact where the low end is slowed and the high end comes through before the low end... we call this sound "thin", sometimes we call it "brittle".

There are other cases where the circuit rolls off too high on the bottom... and too low on the top. These kinds of situations will slow down the way top and the way bottom allowing the mids to pass first... this exhibits itself as a kind of "small" / "barking" kind of audio... often called "Mackie" or "Allen & Heath" or "RME" or .... well you get the idea.

This is why things like a frequency response of 20Hz-to 20kHz is totally fucking unacceptable... and why things with a frequency response of like 1 or 2Hz to 300kHz are considerably more "open" sounding than things with a lesser frequency response.

The down side is that this kind of frequency response stuff is rather difficult [spelled e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e] to achieve... it, along with "headroom" are the main differences between real tools and cheap crap.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Fletcher, thanks for jumping in. What's the cheapest you can get some in your face fast vocals? Will something like the Langevin DVC do it or do you need to go with a Distressor and a RNP (or better)? Right now my Ghost pres and RNC just aren't cutting it.

They type of sound I'm going for is something along the lines of a Rick Rubin vocal sound or the latest Spoon CD.

 

[CoolCat]

here's a little Revolver info..

http://www.mixonline.com/ar/audio_geoff_emerick