help with gain staging.... I think....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris Tondreau
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Chris Tondreau

Chris Tondreau

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Hey there;

I have a quirky problem (yes, music gear related :rolleyes: );

I typically run a mic or a bass into my Behringer Composer Pro compressor (very moderate compression usually), and then into a Peavey TMP1 mic pre. From there, the mic pre goes to my Delta 44 sound card. When I do it this way, I have to set my level on the TMP1 so that it bareley registers on the meter (level maybe at six, but the level (db) meter registers at -6) If I run any hotter than that, I get clipping at my soundcard level meters. I don't actually HEAR the clipping, but when it goes full red, I get nervous.

I'm under the impression that the ideal would be to run the TMP1 with an output level measuring +6 to +12 (yellow range) for a good hot signal, but that would pretty much blow the doors off my sound card.

I've considered operating levels. The Composer Pro is set at -10, and the TMP1 doesn't have any way of setting this. (I don't know what the default of the unit is.) I monkeyed with the operating levels in the control panel of the sound card, but I've got the best one. The others are hotter.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure that this has something to do with the compressor, as without it in the chain, I CAN get a pretty decent level on the preamp.

Any suggestions?

Chris
 
Chris....

Having excessive level on one pice of gear and/or having to boost output of another just to interface with more gear is a typical sign of a problem with gain structure....

First question is - why are you running your bass to the compressor first?

It would make much more sense to send your bass to the direct in on the TMP-1, then run its UNbalanced OUT to the unbalanced IN on the Composer (with its gain structure set to -10) -- then run the Composer's outputs (balanced or unbalanced, whichever is compatible to your s/c) to the s/c inputs....

If your s/c can take a +4 signal, then use the balanced connectors on everything I said above and switch the gain structure setting on the Composer to +4....

Either scenario should get everything playing nicely together again............

If you're still having an issue, feel free to give me a buzz..............!
 
Hey B;

Thanks, man! I was pretty sure I remembered hearing somewhere that the mic pre was typically the first part of any chain, but I got thinking later that maybe I had heard wrong. I did it the way I did because I thought running through the compressor would help me to better control the levels going to the mic pre.

Considering your advice, and thinking on it further from there, I'm going to try switching it back to what I thought it should have been in the first place. I got to thinking now, that being a tube preamp, I can hit it pretty hard anyway....

I'll also double-check the operating levels as you suggested where they be.

Chris
 
Well, it's a PRE amplifier, you know. :)

The pre is what brings the levels up from mic level to normal "line" operating levels.
 
I had considered that ;) , but then thought that a compressor can still work on a signal that might not yet be at line level, and may be able to get a more controlled signal already - even before it gets as far as the preamp, for more control all the way through. What I hadn't considered before, though, was that my preamp, being a tube pre, wouldn't likely be adversely affected by a signal that might result in nasty clipping like in A/D converters, and I hadn't considered that I'd run into the quirky problem that I described.

Chris
 
Chris Tondreau said:
but then thought that a compressor can still work on a signal that might not yet be at line level, and may be able to get a more controlled signal already
Click to expand...

Well, most often not, since it's designed to compress loud signals, and you don't have any. :) And it will definitely add more noise than necessary.
 
FYI- I don't know how they are set on the delta but clip lights usually show red before clipping as a warning. A blinking clip light is usually okay but when they are solid you have to worry. Learn how far you can push it before it clips for real.
 
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