Help take this tune further...Please

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert Mark
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Robert Mark

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Greetings All,
I feel I'm getting sorta close to a "ProMix" but I still think something is missing.

I would greatly appreciate any input on how it strikes u on first listen.

Hammer Away.

Stuff used on recording...
Cakewalk Sonar 2.2
Makie VLZ
AT 4050 mic
Zoom RT 323 (drums)
Ibanez RGT42FMDR
Echo MIA Card
Assorted DXI plugs in Sonar



Thx for anybody takin the time!
Robert Mark
 
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Jesus this is good.......


organ ....a B3....screamin' in the back........yup...that's what I would suggest...
I didn't like the little wah-wah effect on the vox harmony...
speakin' of vox harmony......more please :D

damn this a good tune...
great lyrics man...Rock solid!

very cool man...welcome to the forum
Joe
 
Joe,
First off, thx 4 takin the time.

"I didn't like the little wah-wah effect on the vox harmony..."

Do u mean on the chorus?

"organ ....a B3....screamin' in the back"

yea...I agree, I'm gonna have to find a great B3 somewhere.

thx again!

Robert Mark
 
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Sounds great!

There's something weird about the vocal. It sounds a bit too tight like EQed too narrow or something in contrast with the rest of the song. It's really subtle. The riffs get a bit old in a few spots but overall the song is well done.
 
High production value

actually the production borders on being too slick.
It reminds me of the late 80's "hair band" stuff.
Platinum Blonde, that sort of thing.

Rock Solid production all the way.
 
Robert Mark said:
I didn't like the little wah-wah effect on the vox harmony..."

Do u mean on the chorus?
Click to expand...

Yup...just that little part in the chorus...like two or three words...


Take it easy man,
Joe
 
1. No air on the vocal. Sounds like it was recorded through a 1950s Bogen preamp run to maximum volume. Too much compression too. Let that sucker breath a little bit. You've taken off the edge and lost some clarity.

2. The drums - need I say more - they just don't sound very authentic. Go listen to a Springsteen album, that's the sound the snare should have.

3. Bass, lost in the mud so the song is not driving.

Sounds like overall you ran it through a smush my track device and the highs are sizzling but not clear.

Performance and production however were stellar. Guitars sounded good, slightly too compressed. Overall it sounds like you overprocessed it but the performances were righteous.
 
You're right its missing something

It's a great piece, so this is picky stuff.

The lead vocals need some air. The entire piece sounds a bit mushed. Did you compress the mix? If you did, back off a bit. You need something besides the guitar on top of the sythesizer. Not sure the B3 as suggested is it, but its worth a shot.

Great stuff.
 
Great tune. You want to take it to a fine point, it's a bit over processed. Back off a little on the compression. Like I said, that's taking it to a fine point. It's done very well no matter how you look at it.
 
Ditto the other comments, especially about adding an organ.

The first lead guitar break gets repetitve, the same lick for umpteen bars was too much, I was on the edge of my seat waiting for you to take a ride but it never came.

A real rocker!
 
Nice song. Lots of energy. Overall reall good sound I thought. Good singing. Liked the distorted rhy guits. That organ was a cool addition. I liked the harmonies.

Some plosives or something weird with the vox around 1:12 - 1:15.

Do you have a limiter on the overall mix? Or at least somewhere? I'm hearing some trademark limiter crackling. Mostly on the right side. It comes and goes, but I can hear it in spots throughout.

I personally didn't care for the echo-type effect on the vox in spots. But I'll bet other people like it.

The fade out came a bit early I thought. Can you let the thing run out a few more seconds? On second listen, maybe it's ok. I'll leave the thought in the post just in case you agree.

Good job.
 
Huge sound. :)

Smiley-EQ (slight mid-scooped sound). Guitars modeled? They're smooth, anyway.

Levels sound pretty good... vocs might be a hair loud (under 0.5 db)... would like a little more 'verb on lead vocal.

Cymbals/hats/perc/vox all have a crispy edge to them... almost unpleasant... slight, but noticeable. 8kHz area... not a lot of "air" in the track... would like some 10k-11k in the cymbals and vox... is it possible there's a boost around 8-9kHz on some of your tracks? On the 2-mix? It's slightly harsh in there somewhere.

Very cool composition! Critique is made up of small nitpicks.

This is kind of like Elton John covering Boston, or something.


Chad
 
Thank You everyone for taken the time, I really do appreciate it!

Seems the general consciences is "smush my track device" was taken a little to far... After not hearing it for a little while and hearing it again, I agree.

thx 4 saving me from myself.

I don't have any real drums right now so I have to work with what I got...maybe in the future.

Guitars are going through the little V-Amp from Behringer.

I did have have a crushing lead on the break and I took it out because I thought it was to much. After hearing all these excellent comments, I think I will try something more tasteful in the break part. It does lend itself to something being there.

"Lead Vox needs air" Could someone explain this to me?...I apologize but I am ignorant to this procedure.

"Bass lost in the mud" This is something I need work on with EQ...easier said than done for me :)

"Echo on the vox" I agree it's cliché, and I worked so hard to get it just right :) I did have guitar fills after each verse and again, I felt it was to much. I have been trying to keep myself in check with guitar 'extras" and ask myself is it helping the song or are u just jammin...9 times outta 10 I have to say I'm just getting off on jammin my guitar...

A longer fade does make sense.

Great comments all!!!
Thx again

Robert Mark
 
Robert Mark said:
"Lead Vox needs air" Could someone explain this to me?...I apologize but I am ignorant to this procedure.
Click to expand...

This is usually a tracking thing... for this particular arrangement, a Large Diaphragm condenser recording the voice in a low/no reflection room would probably do the trick.

A carpeted walk-in closet, w/blankets draped on the walls & ceiling has worked well for me in the past. That produced better results than tracking in a "live" room ever did. Some people buy those vocal booths for just that purpose.

Then again.. you may be able to do some EQ shelving above 10kHz... but back away from it if the track starts to sound "grainy"... the higher quality EQs are, of course, better.

"Air" simply means some high frequency content, typically between 10kHz and 16kHz... the human animal is supposed to be able to hear up to 22kHz... but that's above dog-whistle territory!


C
 
Originally posted by Robert Mark
Thank You everyone for taken the time, I really do appreciate it!

I don't have any real drums right now so I have to work with what I got...maybe in the future.

So what are you using in the way of drums? Soundfonts? Loops? Maybe we can make some suggestions.

Guitars are going through the little V-Amp from Behringer.

Actually they don't sound all that bad. I would back off the compressor slightly and maybe distortion too. This to make it less sizzly.

"Lead Vox needs air" Could someone explain this to me?...I apologize but I am ignorant to this procedure.

I think if you back off whatever is smushing everything, i.e. compressor, and just lightly limit the vocal, you will be there. Maybe just a 1-2db bump around 5K would help, if you have a parametric.

"Bass lost in the mud" This is something I need work on with EQ...easier said than done for me :)

I would cut any bass above 80Hz, bump it slightly at 50Hz. Maybe 2db. I would cut off the Kick below 80Hz and above 115. Or, just reverse this making the kick take the low spot and the bass the upper using the same settings. Refine to taste. That should clean it up on the lo end.
 
So what are you using in the way of drums? Soundfonts? Loops? Maybe we can make some suggestions.

Zoom RT 323 (drums)
 
Too bassy (BTW, I didn't read what others wrote, don't want it to influence my feedback ;) ). Turn the bottom down on the bass/drums. The balance in the bass is fine, can make out the instruments fine, but it's just overpowering the rest of the music.

Guitar sounds fine. Actually, guitar tone is really good for that clean-crunch effect.

Snare needs a little more life (and more presence in the mix). Snare=no punch through the mix.

Vocals sound alright, no problem making them out despite the excess bass.

Overall this is a good recording, congrats!
 
I think the punch of the song is gone. In other words..in your gtr crunch riff...that opens the song, and plays thruout. There is no break in there....but the guitar does break. What I am trying to say is that even though the guitar goes/ "chunk , chunk 1,2,3 chunk PAUSE"... it all seems straight lined. You cannot hear the space where the guitar plays the "rest" for the one beat. Everything seems all at one volume. Bad description of what I am trying to say...I think:( But there is no contrast between loud and soft. Not that this song needs a soft part to it...that's not what I am trying to say. Just that the "air" between the notes is lost. Also, even though you can "hear" the bass, drums, keys doing their dt, dt, dt, dt, dt, dt...thingie...they all occupy the same space...front to back(with the keys a little bit in the background...because of the reverb...right???). But, the drums are the only thing that has a little ambience on it (like the snare...which is probably in your sample I would guess on your drum box). The rest is 'in your face', and compressed. Same with the vocals...very "microphone" sounding, for a lack of better words. You can TELL it was sung thru a mic (which of course we know it is!!), but it doesn't have a natural sound on the vocals. It has a very "P. A. humpy sound to it. Like someone dicked with the 31 band EQ on the mains.

the bridge needs a solo big time.

one of the best QUICK FADES I've heard around here. Done PERFECT.

Nice tune, nice playing, nice gtr sounds,...all that. Just needs some "space" and realism to the tracks.

I know compression is mans best friend, but when you hear it on stuff like this, it makes you want to throw the unit in the dumpster. No need for it. You can play without.
 
First Listening:

Create more headroom for the vocal, it needs just a touch more, maybe 1db. IMHO, those are my tastes and on the issue of mixing vocals I am a 'fan', I want to hear the 'lead instrument' which is the vocal in a song, and nothing else is ever technically the 'lead instrument' IMHO while there is lyric vocal. Humans are more important than the machines of music that we have created ... in most cases.

Your guitar sound is a touch overcompressed, could crunch, it's more of a wujzzzowmpf now, but it's still a neat sound and bounds through the song like a big tasty piece of meat on the barbeque ...

The keyboard part you have in it now, that sounds like 'strings' playing 'markedly', I'd love to put the real strings in there.

Second Listening :

Yes, lyrics are much more clear now, because it's the second listening. Don't cheat me on the lyrics ... little sister is sexy ya know ... ain't my little sister ya know ...

Yeah those 'pulsing strings' could be more effective if they were real, then you get the major bite of the rosined bow to start that sound off, it's a 'marcato' stroke actually. I'd like to put the real strings in there, it would be a quick little session to do it, five viola tracks and three violin tracks where ever that string section appears, violins an octave above the violas.

Guitar riff around 2:00 is big and round, experiment with a buss envelope in SONAR and assign the compressor to that, route the guitar to the buss, and compress less towards the middle of that section, (make the envelope a smile), coming back to the original level of compression when the vocal comes back in. I'm thinking you want some more guts and metal here, let the mids on the rythm guitar rage a little more there.

At 3:07, I'd push down the rythm riff and let that little midrange-bending guitar riff come out a bit more to take us out. It's a totally new element and it catches our ear again, it 'rehooks' us before you take the tune out.

It's a killer rock tune, would rock the hell out of any house. It's 'a son of a bi-iiiitch !'

I bet the wav files sounds smashing.
 
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