Help on song dynamics

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Valgrim

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Here is the deal... I'm having a problem creating dynamics in my songs. When I say dynamics I mean a sense of lift/volume etc. Basically I am having problems when the song picks up and distorted guitars come in. Instead of taking the song to the next notch sonically a huge mess is made. The relative volume doesn't increase and instead I get muddy weak sounding guitars.

Here is what I have been doing. First I tracked the "soft" instruments straight through. This is basically a sampled drum track, bass, and clean guitar. After that I added the distorted guitar and then everything err sucked.

Is it a matter of decreasing the master fader to allow room for the "louder" sections? Any tips on how to achieve a vast sonic range would be greatly appreciated. The best example of this range I'm looking for is "Silverfuck" by Smashing Pumpkins, or anything off of Siamese Dream for that matter.

-valgrim
 
Soooo... it's a vast sonic range you're lookin' for, eh?

Okay, I'll try to keep this nice and simple for you...

Keep the drums panned at dead-center.
Pan the bass track to approximately 11 o'clock
Pan the clean guitar to approximately 1 o'clock
Pan the distorted guitar to approximately 10 o'clock

Then...
Check out the sound of each individual recorded track.

If you put too low end on the clean guitar (to give it a fuller sound), the bass and clean guitar will cancel eachother out at certain frequencies, thus causing you to lose some dynamics.
EQ that guitar to sound a bit punchier with less lows and more mid's and highs.
Also, make sure that the distorted guitar is not *too* distorted, and work the EQ section to give that guitar a better (and more distinct) tone.
Be prepared to work the fader up and down on that distorted guitar track, as you do repeated mixes to get a feel for what you are trying to accomplish.
Try adding a bit of reverb to some of the tracks.
I have no idea what type of equipment you are using or what type of music you are recording... so these are just some basic ideas for you to try out. It takes a great deal of trial and error to achieve good results when you are a novice. The parameters I gave you are just a starting point, so twiddle those dials and don't be afraid to experiment!

Go to the http://www.homerecording.com mainpage for excellent advice on recording techniques and simple solutions to common recording mistakes.

Good luck, Grasshoppa! ;)
 
Valgrim - it's a con deal - if I whisper you know i'm quiet - if i shout you think i'm loud - yet i can whisper to 0 and shout to 0, the difference being your interpretation of loud not level. You can't get big if you start with big and you can't get louder if there's nowhere to go. It's a con trick of level and apparent loudness.

Cheers
John :D
 
Too add a bit as far as my gear... I am working with an Art Tube Pre. Behringer 602a mixer, Gina 20bit soundcard. As far as Mics I am using an SM57 for the guitars and going direct with bass. I am using a mexican strat fitted with a blue lace sensor Fender pickup. I can't find my damn Big Muff or I'd use that but am making due with a Boss Me-8. Oh and the amp I'm using is a Marshall mini type amp. I don't play out so I didn't want anything too big. Unfortuantely I have to monitor using Cambridge computer speakers.

The mixes sound pretty good to my ears before they get "loud". I think I have the hang of eqing drums, bass, pad. It's all the "showcase" tracks that leave me pulling my hair out.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I have an additional question. How would you guys approach a mix like I'm describing. I know it's different for every song but in general. Would you add a scratch track of the distorted guitar to get a sense of how that is going to work? The frustrating thing to me is that due to computer performance I can only get around 8 tracks at once initially because I *always* have to throw some reverb on the drums to make them more believeable (Using Fruityloops). I usually have up to 6 tracks of drums (kick, snare, hihat etc.) so that is alot of effects to process and doesn't leave much room for anything other than bass and pad.

Thanks again! :)

-valgrim
 
Hello valgrim. I am going to give a stab at your problem.

The way I would aproach it is to start with the loud parts of the song. Get it sound ing realy good. Then leaave the levels where they are and play back the whole song and see how it sounds. I have been trying to listen to various types of songs and one thing that I noticed when listening to the type of song your describing is that the levels in the softer part of the song do not get any louder (unless there is some sort of lead that may be bumped up a little to help it stand out). Notice that I said a little. When it gets to the loud part, it seems louder because there is more going on and more dynamics in the song which gives the perception of being louder. Try it and let us know how it works out.

Joe
 
I know this would be difficult in your situation but I'd suggest somehow giving the sampled drums a bit of dynamics as well. If possible run them through something where you could "play" the level of the drums on a fader maybe (if possible before effects).. Reduce the levels of your clean gtrs and make sure your bass track isn't too compressed or you'll be in the same situation.. What I like in a "loud part" is the pumping action you get by compressing the drums and gtrs together. Siamese Dream has probably an obscene amount of production. The best song I've heard based on a drum loop with good dynamics is "Sterling Moss" by the Swirlies, off the album "They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days in the Glittering World of the Salons", which I must add is also an incredible record of dynamics, production, and beautiful noise work ala MBV, but more varied and accesible.
 
Never heard of compressing drums and guitars together... hrmmm... Do you mean just during the loud bits? Very intriguing.

As far as Siamese Dream goes it was VERY produced, obsessively produced by Billy Corgan. A common example being the 40+ overdubbed guitars on some tracks. He wanted it to be totally and completely flawless, a bright and shiny masterpiece. I think in this case the "over-production" gives it a weird magical sheen that really works.

-valgrim
 
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